Much discussion has been made regarding the methods in which the game can be made more interesting by altering the aspects of communication between teammates, and the most notable product of this has been the development of the Gunboat scenario which allows players to play the game without ever having to speak to allies. And this makes the game much more interesting assuming that neither side has any prolonged drops.
While the total silence of Gunboat does not necessarily appeal to everyone, neither does the full disclosure of information between teammates appeal to everyone as well. I know I find myself wanting some sort of equitable mix between Gunboat and full team disclosure, so with this thought in mind I wonder if this might be an option in offering a limited communication sort of game.
Limited Communication Rule Game
Each player plays one nation.
Drops are filled discretely.
Player identities are concealed and the honor system is applied as in Gunboat.
Players are allowed to send diplomatic messages with no limitations as to length. Content of said messages will not reveal any personal information as to the player’s identity.
Players are only allowed the send one diplomatic message PER CHARACTER in their capital at the beginning of the turn. So for example if the FK has 3 characters at the start of his turn then he is allowed to send 3 diplomatic messages to any nation he chooses. No characters in your capital? Then you ain’t talking to anybody.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Might make for an interesting game if you include neutrals as well.
I message per capital character and each message can only go to 1 nation. Your FK can send 3 messages to 3 different nations, or 3 messages to the 1 nation (with no length restriction, this would be a dumb FK though…!)
This kind of limit is pretty harsh. 2 or three messages per turn (less if emissary skill is needed) is not enough to plan much at all if traditional communication is used. Depending on what your motivation for this kind of game was, this is a good or bad idea. Primarily, if your goal is to create some “theming/fantasy/medieval” restrictions on communication that put a clamp on the instant communication we have, then I would say limiting # of messages is less appropriate. More appropriate- and perhaps easier - is an imposed delay. Perhaps all exchange would have to accompany the turn as if “the mail guy only comes so often.” This is a more thematically appropriate restriction than limiting the actual number of letters.
Similarly, if the complaint that the benefits of modern communication and correspondence has changed the nature of the game from the way it was designed to be played then imposing a fixed delay on correspondence (less than 2 weeks, perhaps 1 week?) would be more appropriate.
I just wanted something different that could be incorporated into the game without having to change the mechanics of the game itself. It’s easy for players and GM’s to count the number of characters in their capital and send off the appropriate number of diplos. And there is a delay with diplomatic messages, 1 turn since you have to wait a turn for a response, if you get one at all.
Yes, limiting the number of messages allowed per nation per turn is harsh, but it also forces players to be more self-sufficient which is what gunboat did. This would not be for new/novice players.
I just threw the idea out there to see who would be interested in playing.
Gunboat allows for NO communication whatsoever seejaie. Ben’s looking for a middle ground with realistic rules governing it (ie, # of messages based on # characters in capital, realistic as only the capital has access to a broad market of trained carrier pigeons, etc…) inbetween Gunboat and the regular game where you’re obligated to full disclosure. Many don’t understand the arguments “against” a fully disclosed tightly run team game, ie, the attraction TO Gunboat or less-communication styles. Check out the Gunboat thread, or look up Nimdraug on the Members list and send him a private message asking his viewpoint on the matter. Many people, all different…
I am familiar with gunboat; I now see that the an appeal of the benmin proposal which I hadn’t appreciated is that it would be the most natural change to gunboat to allow for a small amount of comm. Its a cool idea either way- as someone who is partly sensitive to the setting of games gunboat variants give me fits. Some communication would add appeal.
And it certainly makes the game that much more interesting if the communications are limited directly through the game by the number of characters at the capital. Everyone keeps people home to do nation maintenance, but now this gives them an added bonus to keep more people at home. It also makes it much costlier to lose characters at one’s capital. It’s easy to maintain an economy outside your capital; it’s a lot harder to do so without help because you can’t get messages to your teammates.
A set number would seem more fair than the numbers in the capital. Let’s see:
Eoth.,Noldo,NG,Sinda,Card., start with 1 in capital.
dwarf,NM,Arth.,start with 2
FK-7 C.L.-7 BS-8 IK-7 LR-5 Dog-7 Dk.Lt-5
Nick
To the best of my knowledge start up locations for characters are randomized during setups. I’ve had as many as 5 characters to start in my capital and as few as 1.
Ben, are you talking about the same nation? My experience is that the location of starting characters is as fixed as the composition of armies. Now, exactly which character starts here instead of there is random, but how many characters start in which pops has never shown itself to be different.
Hmmmm… really now? I was always under the impression that characters that don’t start the game by leading an army were placed in random starting pop centers. Is this not the case? Anyone with more experience on this? Are there a fixed number of characters not assigned to lead armies per starting population center?
Originally posted by benmin18
[b]Are there a fixed number of characters not assigned to lead armies per starting population center?
Ben [/b]
Every Rhudaur startup I’ve seen has shown this exactly. Same number of characters in capital, same in backup, and of the other scattered characters, while a different character (likely), all the same pops are hit. (Rhudaur I know intimately…) Every time I take a sample Turn 0 off the net to work through some preliminary plans before getting a game going, the actual game pdf has the same character spread.
they tried a limited communication gunboat game…I guess nobody bothered to send anything after a while but I think that was a turn based system…obviously from me this is all hearsay since I wasn’t in the game in question…I do like the idea though
I like the idea of a Limited Communication game. Would be fun to try to condense ideas into diplos.
I’d prefer to be able to send one diplo to as many nations as desired each turn, but to have them limited in length – as if, say, communicating through a messenger.
That’s bit less strict than the chr-in-the-capital notion, which dampens aggressive play.
Consider a method that would reduce GM moderation/administration as much as possible. Counting capital characters, truncating diplos = increase. Note that even the sending of the diplo’s requires a certain administration. What are the odds all 25 players will do it “properly” (ie put nation number “to” in subject line, etc) requiring GM’s to attempt to interpret OR simply delete (thus angering players). Then file the diplo’s in email boxes based on the player, nation, game#, etc, in order to attach to the following turn email.
This type of game variant is interesting, but is begging for an internet portal where the rules (1 per nation to each nation per turn, maximum character length, etc) are clearly programmed into a message form from A (login using Account Number and Game Number) to B (Game Number, Nation Number).
they tried a limited communication gunboat game…I guess nobody bothered to send anything after a while but I think that was a turn based system…obviously from me this is all hearsay since I wasn’t in the game in question…
Yes we’ve done this at least twice - after a bit no-one sent diplos (or very few).
I don’t really want to have to keep an eye on how many characters at someones capital, hence how many diplos allowed to send on because of that - very time consuming and labor intensive (ie prone to error). BUT if players want it I’ll support that. As per usual you need 12 players before I’ll put it out to the general populace.
I would play a game of 2950 limited communication if some of my games finished up. Too much going on right now.
For my taste, I would want to severely limit communication and make it more like a GB intel level. I think sending 1 diplo per turn to 1 nation and limit it to say 25 words would still let a nation call for help, find a double scout for agents, coordinate artifacts at least between 2 nations. I feel this will make for some interesting choices, does the WK send out a diplo to the Dk Lts, BS about artifacts, the FK about pass defense etc. Does the DrL try to coordinate with the LR or Dog Lord about moving into Mirkwood or ask the Corsairs for gold? I would hope the Northmen contacted the Rhun (if they are still used, I think a FP Khand is better) or the Dwarves about stopping the LR cav before it burns all those unfortified pop centers.
Sending/receiving 2-3+ diplos per turn would be too much info for my taste and remove a great deal of the fog of war aspect. It would also allow for Nation A to run/suggest how Nation B should move/plan. One the bigger appeals to me of GB is it’s you against one other person or least against not against coordinated nations in the same theater for the most part.
You could even further restrict it by prohibiting contact between some nations.
Just a quick example with very little though behind it:
All FP could contact the Noldo (great characters and wealth) and/or the Rangers (above average characters, secure lands and wealth)
All the DS could contact CL (agent and surplus economy) or the Corsairs (powerhouse all around if played properly)
All nations could additionally contact 1 other nation in geographic proximity:
Woodmen, Sinda
Rohan, Duns
Silvan, Dwarves
Northmen/Rhun (blah) or Khand
NG/SG
WK/FK
DrL/Dog
WW/LR (I still think DS WW in limited/non communication is not sustainable.)
QA/BS
IK/Dk Lts
Perhaps just limiting diplos to one 25 word’er would allow some help, still have a fog of war aspect and allow autonomous control of your nation.
I do think a pre turn 1 diplo would be needed to stop or plan some of the standard opening moves.
