I don’t mean to say that it is a bad thing if neutrals remain neutral longer.
I do think this communications ruleset will result in a rather more predictable neutral split that will favor the FP in the early turns (RHU DUN more likely to join the FP) and the DS in the later game (Ea, Cor, Har more likely to join the DS) and that may all be just fine, unless you are one of the proximal nations who are deprived of diplomatic opportunities by a rule set that is more limiting than that which we played in the early 90’s (a neutral could send a diplo card with e-mail address, name and phone number and create at least the possibility of real time communications without arbitrary limit).
I agree with Clint’s change to Dw/NG and Noldo/NthMn. That is far more balanced.
OBN is a “given” because that is the rules the game moderators set to all play.
500 words is a limit that should cover most needs. No message on turn 0.
Communication consists of a maximum 1 message to the DS, 1 message to the FP and 1 message to the neutrals each turn. This means only 1 message to the neutral allegiance. Your nation/s chose which of the five neutrals get that 1 message.
This means the moderators only send out 3 messages a turn per nation. All they need is to check if the message goes to all of that allegiance.
Allegiance is worked out as of turn start.
Feedback welcome as always. What we are looking for is a good, balanced, enjoyable game.
I am one of the G75 original players, and in the spirit of the game I will not indicate that I have or have not been elimiated. I think it is a great game/format.
I would suggest that there is a word limit on emails.
The word limit is/was being followed fairly closely by eveyone to whom I am/was communicating. With a 50 word limit I was able to email most or all of the data I wished to send. I do not think that the email-word limit needs to be bumped up much higher (if at all), nonetheless if I were given the opportunity to send an unlimited email I would almost certainly build a standard email template that included all character/military/economic/rumor/camp location data. That kind of data would take much away from the spirit of this variant. Yet I asusme that my opponents would do so, and I would not forgo using the same information advantage that was available to them.
One question I have then – say i am a neutral and have decided to go evil or freep and am actually working with the side I have chosen , BUT haven’t had time to change my Icon that way – Since my Icon is still technically a neutral I would still be getting neutral mail from both sides – no !!
Just asking as if I am actually on one side or another and have a neutral working against me – I might not want him to get the one message i send out to all the other neutrals that are still neutrals and haven’t chosen a side !!
Yes, the communication limitation isn’t really viable. You could send 24 recipe cards in the old days, no? I’m of the opinion that target this game is striving for is getting muddied with this issue.
My recollection is that you could only send one card originally and that might have been upped. It’s Mick’s format so I’m happy to go with whatever is decided here, just thought I’d raise the issue of players copying copious amounts of data.
1 Card? You could only communicate with 1 nation a turn…? I don’t recall a limit, I recall “this is how you send a message, put nation# it’s To on the card and mail with orders”. I don’t expect there was ever a burning volumnous desire to “limit” it perse…
You could send 24 cards to the nations, plus a card to the editor of “Whispers”, plus a card to the GM asking a boneheaded rules question—all at the same turn. The processors just stuffed envelopes.
“Anything goes”. Since the game designers did not explicitly say ‘anything goes’ it follows that the possibility would never enter the thought processes of unimaginative linear thinkers.
No, you could send as many cards as you wanted (max 1 per receiving nation).
But in reality, to allies, the cards established phone connection and later email connection so that crucial turns could have high bandwidth connectivity. The neutrals probably got more attention…
This game variant needs some additional clarification on what is really going to happen in the communication arena. That said, I’m tempted to join, but want to see the original poster clarify the rules again please.
Also, please clarify end-game rules. Is a bug-hunt possible? if so, count me out. Do you use the voting rules for end-game?
I might be interested, but in all cases I prefer to hold out until some open discussion of G75 can take place. That will happen only after the game ends.
In all cases, I think there should be some limit on the word length of the diplos in this type of variant.
It’s now time to finalise the rules and see how much interest remains. Thanks for the feedback to all those who have posted.
The discussion on communication has changed my initial ideas in a way that should benefit the game. I hadn’t even thought of the end game conditions either; but I too hate bug hunts. The rules will adress that issue. Drukarzan has lost out as the Noldo/Gondor alliance is no longer in the game and the DS feel better for it. That feedback was important. I will over the course of the next few days send some emails to Clint so he can audit for completeness.
In South Australia we are currently experiencing a 115 degree heat wave. The next 3 days are all over 110 and the following 3 are over 105. Power blackouts, other game turns due and my need to hide from the heat at the pub mean the final draft is likely to be a few days coming.
I look forward to seeing you all in the field of battle, either by my side or on my pike. Stay posted!
One nation per neutral player
-Dunlending
-Rhuadar
-Corsair
-Haradwaith
-Easterling
One of the following five dark servants combinations for each dark player:
-Dark Lieutenant/Dragon Lord
-Ice King/Long Rider
-Dog Lord/Blinder Sorceror
-Quiet Avenger/Fire King
-Witch King/Cloud Lord
One of the following five free people combinations for each free player:
-Noldo Elves/Northmen
-Arthedain/Woodmen
-Cardolan/Sinda Elves
-Northern Gondor/Dwarf
-Southern Gondor/Eothraim
3 nation selections are required (more is helpful).
Diplos and information sharing
Each player may send 1 message per turn to each “faction”. The DS are one faction, the FP are another faction and each neutral nation counts as an individual faction. You do not have to send to all in your faction, you can name the parties to receive your message. Factions are determined as of turn start meaning a neutral who declares will still receive his neutral factional message, but not the one for the alliance they join.
Messages may be no more than 500 words at maximum. This should allow comprehensive communication of thoughts and intent, while putting a pratical restriction of message length. If you are even 1 word over 500 then the entire message will be blocked. This is to discourage the player to create messages that long and to represent that large messages will be intercepted by insurgents.
Posting of information or discussion on forums is allowed 5 turns after the event. When turn 6 results come in you can post/discuss anything you wish from turn 1 results. Likewise when turn 7 results are received you may post or discuss information from turn 2 results and so on. This allows teams to share files, but only well after the event. It reflects the evential disemination of information and allows for lively banter between players.
You can send diplos with your first set of orders, but not before the game starts.
Winning
First, Second and Third place finishers are determined by nation score plus Individual Nation VCs. A 200pt bonus for One Ring victory if you are nation who delivers One Ring to Mt Doom (3423). First place finisher must be on the winning side. 2nd and 3rd place do not have to be on the winning side.
Game ends when one One Ring victory occurs or when one allegiance (DS,FP) outnumbers the other by more than 3:2 in active nations or when more than 1/2 of players on one allegiance (DS,FP) concede (dead nations do not count as a vote). Request for voting can be sent in at any time, with a maximum of once per 5 turns (so turns 1-5, 6-10, 11-15 etc), and we’ll email the players with the next turn. The game is concluded after 50 turns with a tactical victory to the side with the most nations remaining.
After the game has finished, the total points that each nation received is revealed, both with and without individual nation VCs. Each individual player’s nation is not identified unless the player decides to do so of their own volition.
Other miscellaneous rules
Character interaction is uncontrolled by game moderators. You can do anything to any nation in any hex. If you want to inf other an enemy camp because of camp conflict go ahead. I you have a victory condition of kill an allied character then so be it. Just expect a fairly aggresive reply from your “ally”, don’t be surprised if allies drop over these sort of issues.
Players may be replaced. Free People and Dark Servant nations will be offered to players in game 1st, but the maximum of 2 nations per player is still applicable. This means only alligned nation players that have lost one nation can pick up a second. No player can pick up a nation which results in playing two agent based nations. Agent based nations are those with +20 kill, stealth, or double scout. A neutral that has declared can also request to pick up a second nation once he has allied, but not prior. Should no candidate within the game wish to accept the take up option, it will then be offered to external players. Neutral nations will only be available to those not currently within the game.
Additional charges: an additional fee may be charged, The moderators can expect anything around 100 emails per turn. This results in many extra hours extra work per turn. Clint will keep us posted on how this goes.
Hopefully this complies with the requests for players that provided feedback and entices some other into the game also.
I still don’t get the motivation to play with communication like this. The significant changes I see are:
No limit on character actions.
Single nation Neutrals.
Permission to post (albeit “5 turns later”) about the game.
I see this as an attempt to “bring back” the “original game” whereby, with no limit on characters actions and a placing system based on VP’s, you are allowed, even encouraged, to attack members of your own allegiance in order to “Win or place”.
So why this limitation on communication? In the old days, you’re allowed 24 recipe cards (25 if you included Ed’s stupid question…). How are you going to keep your allies believing your a great team player and plot with some against another if you can only send 1 diplo “per faction”? Similarly, if you want to work with the Dragon Lord to share the fancy artifact you located, do you want to risk the discussion in the greater group when the Dark Lieutenant might go and get it for himself…? I know - you send a message that turn only to the Dragon Lord - so you can’t send anything to the rest of the Allegiance.
This would be Clint’s contribution here. Stuffing all those email envelopes—I bet he hates the activity. Yes, you need the ability to lie to one “ally” while being straight with another “ally”.
The GSI game was a reasonably good simulation of international relations—which is NOT a chess-like strategy game. I have explained this in some detail on the List in a thread entitled “Loss of Diplomacy”. Cardiff just won’t get it, I guess.
Upto you guys on how big you want the diplo to be - I raised what I forsaw as an issue… With cut and paste it’s relatively simple our end to look after, just labourious.
I’ve got 7/15 filled now, so Game 3 is now up and running. If you’ve NOT emailed me then you’re not signed up for the game.
With cut and paste it’s relatively simple our end to look after, just labourious.