$1 fine per day for being late.
$1 off per day early! I’d get a $14 discount on all my GB turns~! Paid to play, I wouldn’t have to hide this nasty little habit from Wife…!
dreamers…
Spivo - any serious suggestions/thoughts? Clearly Brad is sleep-typing his dreams… 
I’m always confused by you folks taking this “magic sword and dragon-ring of invisibility” game so seriously…
Working a lot lately…
But still giving it a lot of thoughts.
Will give suggestions later on, but here’s a list of things that bothers me about this otherwise super fantastic game.
My thoughts will be focussed on GB’s, as this is a GB…
SS:
Why on earth is it that SS’ing is free??? I can understand if you’re a non-declared neutral, but when you’re part of a team, you should cough up, as you’re basically ruining it for the rest of the team.
And I do think SS should be visibel for the rest of the team, and should be some rules about how many times you can SS (not necesarily in a row, also over a certain amount of turns), and when you reach the critiria it’s called to a vote wether the combo should be split up in two for the team, or wether it should be open game to attack with characters.
Diplomacy (every 5th turn games):
First of all, if you sign up for this stuff, please make sure that the person can read/write english fairly well (one game we have a neutral who’s an english illiterate, REALLY hard to communicate when he can only read partial english!!!)
Second, if you don’t diplo the first turn, you should count as SS (towards the above criteria), from then on you should diplo every second round as a minimum. And of course: “Hiya” is not a diplo…
Diplomacy (every turn, like this alliance GB):
No idea how to handle this, I don’t even think I would diplo every turn…
Maybe first turn as a minimum, and then every 3rd-5th turn?
Neutrals, Noldo and such…:
Why is it that the most sought out nations sometimes are given to people who seems like it’s their first game? And also who hardly communicate?
Make sure neutrals are given to experienced people (Brad, Dave etc… not me fer instance). These people are also more likely to declare for balance, rather than to hoard VP’s.
Same goes for a select few combos, like Noldo and such.
DS/FP:
Try’n balance the experienced people out on the two sides, and not just experience, also how much they diplo… I think this is allready being done…
And put the experienced ones on important nations, again…
I don’t mind playing FK/QA or NM/Dwarves or whatever, in such a game where I know the others are stable players.
I realize a big problem to this, comes when you want to fill the game, because the player base isn’t that big.
But would rather wait for half a year to fill, and then have it last 20+ turns.
I propose a pool of experienced players sign up to be Special Service volunteers. 24 hours prior to the due date if no orders have been submitted, doesn’t MEPBM send out a nag-gram? Well, in addition to that, send the latest turn results to the SS volunteers and have them send in orders. If multiple folks submit them, they can pick one at random or whichever arrives first or last or whatever. It would be like if the King falls ill his trusted advisors muddle through the best they can but at least the nation won’t sit idle. If that sounds too random and you are thinking you would rather your nation is SS’d than have orders submitted by a stranger, then maybe have a designated pinch hitter who gets your nag-gram and turn results and only they would be eligibile to stand in for you.
well, the 24hour SS Volunteer thing would almost always put me into the category of needing a special service volunteer as I almost always do my turns the day/night before they’re run. I admire the intention, but I think there’d be a lot of extra work on that one that would be wasted. And when people do a lot of wasted work, they come to resent it, and so I think it would devolve. Nice intentions, but not practical IMO. Finally, to do orders correctly, you need to have the entire game context. Even in the past when I inherited a position in a game, I find it much more difficult to do the first few turns of the pickup position than if I’m playing a position all along in a game. I think a SS volunteer would likely do a marginal job of orders (at best case), and might muck things up for the real player’s plans (more likely). So again, admire the intention, but definitely think this idea doesn’t fly in reality.
Dave
Spivo - thanks for your thoughts & suggestions. I won’t comment on the ones that are GM jobs/duties. I think they do about as good as possible in trying to balance the teams, put experienced players in correct positions, etc. I’ll comment on the rules that can affect play of this particular Alliance style GB that this thread is talking about:
Great idea. We could make SS turns cost regular turn fee. THen people would be much less likely to SS.
I suspect that you would diplo every turn. It’s a big advantage. most of the experienced/dedicated players in the Alliance game still running did/do diplo every turn. Some go to the trouble of diploing to individual nations, some do broadcasts, some do misleading diplos to enemy nations to confuse them. But I don’t see how we can enforce anything on diplos. At the end of the day, people play this game out of their own free will and to have fun. Hopefully they won’t sign up for a game like this one and then not participate in the diplos…
I guess in conclusion, just like we ask people who join a “no-quit” game to not quit, we should ask people who join a diplo game to actually diplo! 
But I don’t see that we can enforce it.
We could have a rule that eliminates any cost advantage of SS’ing. I like that idea.
Dave
Okay, I agree, can’t force people to diplo
But show us who SS, and don’t make it free of cost.
With making SS cost that is even more annoying for the player who’s missed a turn. I find that it causes more drop outs as a procedural thing. Generally we don’t get a lot of SS turns with all the reminders and the like that we’ve got today, I’m not saying they don’t occur just a lot less in proportion to other policies we’ve (and others) have tried.
Clint
Interesting what people believe who should be with what nations. I happen to also in these games with limited diploing. whether I chose to diplo some are at all is my perogative. Last i checked i was paying for my turns. I also happen to be extremely active in those games but also chose to diplo only when I am in need. I a gunboat you have 2 nations to supply your own needs.
I do aggree certain nations should be active in diplos when perferming certain roles like killer agents and cursers. But others give me a break! The alliance game was started and filled to take us back to the OLD days! When we have exactly what happened. Some diplo some don’t… Some SS some don’t. Some even get knocked out… But everything a player needs to win with his or her alliance can be gathered in Game! Exactly as the game was origonally designed. that does not make that player ineffective in a Limited diplo game simply becuase they chose not to Diplo you. How long the game lasts in these games has everything to do with How effective each player is at eliminating his opposition individually.
Now for charging for SS would mean players who had things happen beyond thier control would simply start dropping from the game! Nobody wants to SS simply to not pay for a turn. Guys there is real life going on outside of our Games so be real. Nobody is intentionally trying to mess up your fun or you game. Some believe in this format the best way to play is diploing alot… Some believe and have enough expierence that diploing little they can still play a Major Role in thier teams Victory by getting thier info in Real time by using the infomation they can gather in Game… That is thier Fun! Just remember diplos are Old are 2 turns old by the time you can react to them.
Finally if you want and open team Gunboat game the ask for one! But do not try to make a Diplo game a Team Game becuase it simply is not one to begin with!
Here’s something new - well said Terry…mostly… Judgementally close-minded people are handy, but certainly not the type to consult when creating policy.
I agree about the diplo, but not about the SS. Spare me the lectures on having a life (I bet mine is better than yours /epeen). If someone can’t find 30 minutes out of two weeks to submit at least a shadow of turn, I really can’t understand that. Sure, it may happen once in a very great while, but there are some real jerks playing this game who can’t seem to get their turns in with any regularity and they seriously impact other good customers’ enjoyment of this relatively expensive game. The current rules distribute the cost of their misconduct from themselves to the paying customers.
I do not agree on the SS…
Example: On the DS “team”, a player who doesn’t get his turns in, can seriously ruin the whole game.
Remember most of the DS players are gathered in “Fortress Mordor”, and if one falls, everyone pretty much falls.
If DogLord SS’s, and doesn’t move out to block the 4000 angry EO troops, then Morannon falls, and then the next wave of EO HI will shatter the rest.
You ahve no CL agents who can deal with this, because he simply can’t keep track of everything happening, and he doesn’t have strong enough agents to kill to start with, like in indies where you give him all agent arts.
Because if you give him all agent arts, and he’s not a regular player, then they’re not being used… same result.
I will argue that SS on the DS side in GB’s are much more hurtfull than on FP side, maybe apart from Noldo SS’ing, and not getting arties.
And to often I’ve seen a SS, followed by a SS, followed by a drop. The last two “turns” cost the player zero, but cost everyone else on the team, because they’re being overrun.
But of course, the whole issue lies more in “iregular players”, rather than cost for SS or not.
Game XX… Harad (a nation I know many would like to try) never diploed anyone, now his nation is being torn apart by all parties…
What qualified him to run this nation? He sure isn’t a seasoned player, because then he would have defended himself!
Again ranting, as I don’t really have the solution, I only have problems
Just to give you an example of what can and has happend to Myself over the years some recently… Lost ISP via Satelite… Hurricanes with No power for weeks… In limited diplo game means only I can see my PDF and XML… Should I have to pay for costing my team that… Broken satelite reciever that cost me Doglord Capitol where I had 3000 HC and no opposition! The Forced my tax rate to 85% and nearly bankrupted my nation in a game I was winning!. Next emergency hospitol stays I’ve had this for over a week a couple of times. With the massive influence of new younger player (laughs) this may happen more often! So i cost My team! But It costs my nation alot more! I SS’s the very first 2 turns of The Allaince game becuase my XML were currupted I nearly dropped that game even though I didn’t pay for those turns Had I payed I would have dropped that game! It will be interesting For those playing to see who I am when That game ends!
So leave the SS alone… Players have lives outside the game! Don’t take SS personal… IE the game! I get told that alot in Forum!:hug:
I can certainly see that extenuating circumstances could exist that would cause a SS turn. One of them has now been eliminated with the advent of the online turn server. Prior to that wonderful innovation, an occasional turn sent via email would somehow get “lost” and a SS would result. Now that doesn’t happen anymore if you use the turn server. WOOHOO!!! I love the turn server.
Beyond that, I do notice that these “extenuating circumstances” keep happening to the same players over and over again… hmmm
Frankly, I want to be in games where the players take the game serious enough that if they are going to miss a turn, that they arrange for a friend to submit orders for them. Whether on the same “side” or opposite "side, no SS turns makes for a better game. After all, this isn’t a cheap game to play.
As to Holy Avenger’s desire to play in diplo games but not diplo if he doesn’t want to - now people can add that attribute to their understanding of his play style. As we have all stated - it’s up to the player to decide if they want to diplo or not. But I do hope you’re on the opposite “side” from me in these games Holy Avenger!
cheers,
Dave
Oh no…don’t you know better than that by now…???
Problem though is that you have also have a group of people who join a game, loose interest, forgets to write that they drop, SS two turns in a row, because… it doesn’t cost them anything to not drop.
How about making the turn AFTER a SS free, but keeping the cost on the SS?
That way people who actually wants to play their nation, still doesn’t pay for the SS, while people who just drop anyway pay for their SS?