Odd Results..

mepbmlist
#1

Anyone ever see documented proof of results that are
contradictory?

For example, my character received results that said
he overran and routed an army, killing all enemy
characters. The enemy in question claims that this
has not occured. In fact, the enemy in question began
the discussion by asking how my huge army snuck by his
armies. His armies made it, my pdf says they're gone,
his characters are alive and well, thank you very much.

Of course, he may be attempting so misinformation, but
600 troops on turn 3 don't amount to much........

Anything like this ever happen? Just curious really!

Thanks,

Brad Brunet

···

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#2

ditletang@canada.com wrote:

For example, my character received results that said
he overran and routed an army, killing all enemy
characters. The enemy in question claims that this
has not occured. In fact, the enemy in question began
the discussion by asking how my huge army snuck by his
armies. His armies made it, my pdf says they're gone,
his characters are alive and well, thank you very much.

Game 23 had more than its share of strange results along these lines. We'll
tally them up and report back...

Gavin

#3

After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to the conclusion
that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure seems to go
in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if not all,
mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less all fail.
This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed this?

In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents performed ScoChar
at the same location, and then failed their assassinations... With those
odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!

Gavin

#4

Lots of players have noticed this over the years.
There is clearly some mechanism here at play that
we have never been informed of. It may not be
that the RNG is broken. There have been theories
that there are "turn-wide" rolls for each nation
that for that turn modify their level of success
in scouting, 615/620, even camp-creation. Who
knows, with GSI anything's possible. (They've
admitted that the combat algorithm has some
things in it that aren't published.)

Jeremy

After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to the

conclusion

that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure

seems to go

in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if not

all,

mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less all

fail.

This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed this?

In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents performed

ScoChar

at the same location, and then failed their assassinations... With

those

···

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, Gavinwj <gavinwj@c...> wrote:

odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!

Gavin

#5

Gavinwj wrote:

After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to the conclusion
that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure seems to go
in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if not all,
mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less all fail.
This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed this?

In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents performed ScoChar
at the same location, and then failed their assassinations... With those
odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!

Legends has the same problem - has something to do with the 'random'
numbers being based on permutations of a single base number. You'd be
more random using dice, but that would take forever...

-ED \1/

#6

I'm not sure if RNG work the same as they did when I was programing, but thr RNG
gets a feed number from somewhere. On progams where I enter the number manualy if
I put the same number in over and over I got the same number out. Most RNG
programs get the Feed number from the onboard clock. I would think since the
program gets the numbers for various orders at about the same time they would tend
to run in trends. Thus leading to one order type failing across the board.

"Edward A. Dimmick" wrote:

···

Gavinwj wrote:
>
> After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to the conclusion
> that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure seems to go
> in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if not all,
> mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less all fail.
> This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed this?
>
> In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents performed ScoChar
> at the same location, and then failed their assassinations... With those
> odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!
>
Legends has the same problem - has something to do with the 'random'
numbers being based on permutations of a single base number. You'd be
more random using dice, but that would take forever...

-ED \1/

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
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#7

Whoosh! I hope that's not the ME algorithm.
Speaking as a programmer, there are fairly
simple techniques to get much more randomized
results than that, even if all you have to work
with is a time-base generator. At the least,
you can store a bunch of numbers (say 5000)
and then use the time-based generator to pick
one of the stored numbers, and replace it.

Jeremy Richman

I'm not sure if RNG work the same as they did when I was programing,

but thr RNG

gets a feed number from somewhere. On progams where I enter the

number manualy if

I put the same number in over and over I got the same number out.

Most RNG

programs get the Feed number from the onboard clock. I would think

since the

program gets the numbers for various orders at about the same time

they would tend

to run in trends. Thus leading to one order type failing across the

board.

"Edward A. Dimmick" wrote:

> Gavinwj wrote:
> >
> > After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to

the conclusion

> > that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure

seems to go

> > in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if

not all,

> > mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less

all fail.

> > This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed

this?

> >
> > In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents

performed ScoChar

> > at the same location, and then failed their assassinations...

With those

> > odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!
> >
> Legends has the same problem - has something to do with the

'random'

> numbers being based on permutations of a single base number.

You'd be

···

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, kurgan <kurgan@o...> wrote:

> more random using dice, but that would take forever...
>
> -ED \1/
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

#8

Could well be - as a player I have similarly noticed the roll carrying on
for a number of events in a turnsheet - both beneficial and detrimental. So
sometimes spell casting would all fail for my second spell, or all succeed
for example.

Clint (player comment)

···

Lots of players have noticed this over the years.
There is clearly some mechanism here at play that
we have never been informed of. It may not be
that the RNG is broken. There have been theories
that there are "turn-wide" rolls for each nation
that for that turn modify their level of success
in scouting, 615/620, even camp-creation. Who
knows, with GSI anything's possible. (They've
admitted that the combat algorithm has some
things in it that aren't published.)

Jeremy

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, Gavinwj <gavinwj@c...> wrote:
> After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to the
conclusion
> that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure
seems to go
> in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if not
all,
> mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less all
fail.
> This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed this?
>
> In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents performed
ScoChar
> at the same location, and then failed their assassinations... With
those
> odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!
>
> Gavin

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

#9

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

Could well be - as a player I have similarly noticed the roll carrying on
for a number of events in a turnsheet - both beneficial and detrimental. So
sometimes spell casting would all fail for my second spell, or all succeed
for example.

So it looks as if my paranoia is justified. :slight_smile:

I'd classify this as bad programming, though.

Gavin

#10

I am going to get together a list of "faults" that are in the game and ask
GSI to get them fixed. Please don't tell me yet though :slight_smile: Once we have
dealt with the back log of set-ups/takeovers we can work through these.

Also I want to create a questionnaire to go with the Bree (also time
allowing). Any thoughts on queries to go in?

Clint

> Could well be - as a player I have similarly noticed the roll carrying

on

> for a number of events in a turnsheet - both beneficial and detrimental.

So

> sometimes spell casting would all fail for my second spell, or all

succeed

···

> for example.

I'd classify this as bad programming, though.

#11

After playing many, many games of Middle Earth, I'm coming to the

conclusion

that the random number generator isn't. Random, that is. Failure seems to

go

in waves; if one character fails to research a spell, most, if not all,
mages fail; if one high level assassin fails, again more or less all fail.
This has been repeated over and over. Has anyone else noticed this?

In the last turns I received in one game, eight 90+ agents performed

ScoChar

at the same location, and then failed their assassinations... With those
odds, I ought to win the lottery soon!

Gavin

RD: Gavin, I do believe you're right. I've noticed the same phenomenom. In
one game I'm playing, out of perhaps 20 offensive emi actions by the team,
only those of one player have worked! Amongst the failures was an E80+
failing to double a weedy allied agent, but there were others nearly as
jaw-droppingly surprising (and bloody frustrating!).

I've seen the same with agents in FA. I can laugh about it now, but a mate
of mine bought the +20 to assass/kidnap and the name agents at 40 SAs. He
hit the nearest enemy capital with a stack of agents and not only failed to
get a single kill but some of his 'assassins' got captured!

I've also noticed a run of bad luck by Erestor over a number of 1650 games.
Despite starting as E40, over 3 games he failed to create a single camp
before the limit was reached! I asked Harlequin to investigate to make sure
his stats actually delivered what they said, and guess what, they checked
with GSI and said: stats work fine, the guy's just had a run of bad luck.

As you say, if only I could turn a bad run like that into a good one, I'd be
a rich man!

Regards,

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gavinwj" <gavinwj@compuserve.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:27 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Random numbers?

#12

It does work the other way as well though. As per usual I would assume that
players don't notice when everything goes right... :slight_smile:

Clint

As you say, if only I could turn a bad run like that into a good one, I'd

be

···

a rich man!

#13

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

I am going to get together a list of "faults" that are in the game and ask
GSI to get them fixed.

I wish you luck. Both with dealing with the deluge of reported faults and
with getting GSI to fix them. :slight_smile:

Gavin