Why is it that if a pop center is captured by the enemy, loy drops in
all(most) of my remaining pc's but if a pop center is destroyed by the enemy, there
is no loy drop at all?
Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Because there are no survivors to tell the tale..? (with tongue only half in cheek)
RFmehl@aol.com wrote: Why is it that if a pop center is captured by the enemy, loy drops in
all(most) of my remaining pc's but if a pop center is destroyed by the enemy, there
is no loy drop at all?
Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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With a capture there are survivors who spread the news
of terror and conquest. The rest of the nation is
embittered as their supposed masters and protectors
allow their subjects to become enslaved - who's to say
they won't be next?
With a destroy they kill everyone, including the
pigeons and nobody is the wiser...
Or choose a rationalization for yourself, but that's
how the code works. Destroy when appropriate but
capture when you can as it accelerates your enemy's
demise.
Brad
···
--- RFmehl@aol.com wrote:
Why is it that if a pop center is captured by the
enemy, loy drops in
all(most) of my remaining pc's but if a pop center
is destroyed by the enemy, there
is no loy drop at all?Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
A couple of reasons to DstPop anyway ...
···
-----Original Message-----
From: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Brad Brunet
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 9:25 AM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] PC loy drops
With a capture there are survivors who spread the news
of terror and conquest. The rest of the nation is
embittered as their supposed masters and protectors
allow their subjects to become enslaved - who's to say
they won't be next?
With a destroy they kill everyone, including the
pigeons and nobody is the wiser...
Or choose a rationalization for yourself, but that's how the code works.
Destroy when appropriate
1) strategic reasons (you want to clear a road; you don't want the enemy
retaking in a few turns; etc.)
2) for combat "bonus" (much speculated and some say "proven" by .pdf
results), e.g. to save troops by engaging in fewer rounds of combat, because
you don't have enough troops to CptrPop but can DstPop with the bonus
But capture when you can as it accelerates your enemy's demise.
Generally, tho', I agree with this statement.
HTH.
Brad
b
--- RFmehl@aol.com wrote:
Why is it that if a pop center is captured by the
enemy, loy drops in
all(most) of my remaining pc's but if a pop center
is destroyed by the enemy, there
is no loy drop at all?Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
Actually, that is not the case -- Destroy Pop DOES have an impact on loyalties, I have noticed it being WORSE than when a pop center is captured in fact. But as loyalty adjustments are random and also are more severe the larger the pop center, AND there is also the random +/-1 at 40-60% taxes (plus whatever base mode there is depending on your actual tax rate if less than 40 or more than 60) you might notice nothing with the destruction of a small pop center and see a noticable hit with the capture of a large pop center.
What sizes were those pop centers?
But in my games, every turn, I track the loyalty changes of every pop center to the previous turn's loyalties, and I have definitely seen impact from the destruction of pop centers, greater on average than that from a destroy. (I have played in a lot of games and across the range, randomness averages out and you can see trends.) Threats and influences however do not impact loyalty of pop centers except for the one directly effected.
Rationale:
From a threat or influence other, no citizens die, so citizens in other pop centers don't worry about it.
From a capture, a portion of the population gets killed and/or driven away, so citizens in other pop centers do get a bit nervous.
From a destroy, all the population gets killed and/or driven away, so citizens in other pop centers get scared.
The random rolls can disguise the actual impact. I have seen pop centers go up in loyalty on a turn when a camp was destroyed -- but then, with taxes at 26%, all my pop centers were getting a +(1-3) loyalty boost every turn, so it is certainly possible that a pop center got 2 or 3 points of loyalty due to low taxes and lost 0 or 1 point of loyalty from hearing about the destruction of a camp, with an overall result of a gain for the turn.
-- Ernie III
···
-----Original Message-----
From: drukarzun@yahoo.com
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] PC loy drops
Because there are no survivors to tell the tale..? (with tongue only half in cheek)
RFmehl@aol.com wrote: Why is it that if a pop center is captured by the enemy, loy drops in
all(most) of my remaining pc's but if a pop center is destroyed by the enemy, there
is no loy drop at all?
Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
Yahoo! Groups Links
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brad Brunet wrote:
With a capture there are survivors who spread the news
of terror and conquest. The rest of the nation is
embittered as their supposed masters and protectors
allow their subjects to become enslaved - who's to say
they won't be next?With a destroy they kill everyone, including the
pigeons and nobody is the wiser...Or choose a rationalization for yourself,
A reasonable enough explanation; but as I've learned from decades of game analysis and design, you can rationalize nearly anything in the parts of a game which are abstracted. No biggie there.
However --
> but that's
how the code works. Destroy when appropriate but
capture when you can as it accelerates your enemy's
demise.Brad
I know I've read articles and comments on this issue and somehow I came away with the wrong information.
I've had it backwards all these years. I thought the benefit of destruction was lowering enemy global loyalty, and the benefit of capture was you got a pop center. Seemed like a fair trade-off, so I never thought to question it.
However, since learning to play the game, I guess I've never really gone back to re-read all those MEPBM articles with the benefit of context.
Hmm. I guess that's a new item on my to do list now. :: sigh :: Like I need more to do.
- Steve M.