>> Patronising.
Clever, but slightly underhand of you to quote my comment, but snip
your comment to which it was a response. Your assertion, if you
remember, was that people could not do simple division sums for
themselves. Is this selective snipping a roundabout way of retracting
your original assertion?
No, but thanks for pointing out my devious and underhanded way of dealing
with criticism, as those who can't divide would Never had noticed.
Add that to Patronizing, divide by 1 and you get the Average number of bad
things you can call me in a day... 
>
>
>Yup. Thanks.
>The greatest brick wall I just can wrap my head around for smashing
>into is this:
>You actually want the average Intentionally NOT calculated.
Yes. Because it's a processing of the information. It says to the reader
(let's presume a new, and less sophisticated player) "this is the column
that matters")
>
>When did I say that I don't care for the rest of the numbers?
>When did I argue to exclude them?
>I love numbers! The more the merrier!
OK.>Why are you restricting a
>simple calculated number that I, and I am just guessing a little
>here, Most people, would find useful?
Because it's a derived number, not a piece of raw data. A decision has
been taken, that those two columns are important enough to be
processed into a third column. That decision, and the value of that
column is debatable.
I didn't invent the concept of the Average. Nobody ever began this discussion
with "Let's compile a Gaming History of All Players and their Results". Check on
what Rating means. Players are "Seeded" or giving some sort of score in just about
every competitive field. Raw totals would be used to say, count the score of a game,
or number of goals in a season (where everyone plays the same number of games, thus
the Meaning...), etcetera. But even in those instances, stats like Points Per Game (um,
an Average..meaningless local Canadian stat that nobody else cares for), This or That
Per Game, Batting Average, etcetera. The entire point is Meaning.
And for that matter, I believe Kevins concept had Average Number of Votes per Game
Played. There is a statistic that, once there is actually a large enough data set, will
be quick and easy for players perusing the updated list, to make their own
determinations regarding IT's meaning - the over time proven team-quality of the player.
A grand total of number of game won? A total of number of games voted MVP? That
entire data set goes up by 1, and 1 only every game that ends, on the ASSUMPTION
that EVERY game returns a vote that is Meaningful enough to publish this result.... 25
players start the game, and only 1 gets recognition. That is not the point. Even if my
allies give you the Vote ahead of me (stupid allies...;), I still think that, over time, with
enough total votes coming in, I deserve my 2 or 3 to your 5 or 6, and the other guy gets
credit for his 2, and so on. You would prefer 1 name with the number 1. If you're keeping
stats, Keep Stats! This ain't a football score, waste of time...
>Meaningful?
Yes, your meaning, imposed on others.
Repeat: fight the battle against the guys who Invented the concept of the Average,
I'm guessing Greek, many thousand years ago, but as we all know by now, I'm no
scholar..
>Why are you
>trying to keep me from those numbers?
Well you can stick them somewhere else (not intended to be a quip!) I
suppose. I just don't like the idea of mixing primary and secondary data
in the same table. Graphs and tables can be used to give messages, by
the way they present and process data, ranging from straight and factual
to distorted propaganda. I'd like ours to have as much integrity as
possible.
I agree with integrity. More subjectivism, I'm afraid....
>What have I done to you?
Nothing personal you know.
That's a relief, I figured I Must have done Something...short memory...
>Someone has gone through all the trouble to come up with the idea,
>put in their own unpaid time, pay for a web site, etc a-n,
Woah! Just because Kevin took an initiative and stuck up a sample on
his web page, it doesn't mean we have to accept his format you know -
give him his due, it was just a quick sample.
>and just
>as I'm gettin all excited because there's gonna be More numbers,
>you come down and say "No No, mustn't include THAT number. Let them
>figure it for themselves..I (EYE) don't think it's important".
To be precise: I think an average votes column gives out false
messages.
Why? No more of that Secondary Data pseudo intellectual tripe. What is the
message that the entire point of doing this is supposed to give out? I'd actually
rather have my Average # of Total Votes somewhere on the bottom of the list
(with my name spelled wrong..) than actually showing off in public how many of
these games I actually play! Really, THAT may just be bloody embarassing...
So, what is the point of a player RATING system? Who started this thread anyway?
What are we measuring? What are we going to take out of it? Why am I getting
so confused?
>Please please don't take numbers away from me....
OK. What about doing the roster in excel file format, which could be
downloaded by number crunchers such as your good self? It could
display the raw data, but you could take your own copy, and play with
extra columns to your heart's content.
Well, I've actually offered to compile various piles of data at various times
for various people. I'd include that column, and send it off to someone else
who put's it on the wall/web. Of course, they don't trust me with sensitive
information....
Regards,
Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/
Before I copy the sign off, I would just like to plug my theory that someone is
merely baiting me with this Entire "debate". I would like to hope that is the case,
and proclaim that yes, I drink enough coffe to be exciteable enough to fall for most
of these every time...
Regards,
Brad Brunet
ยทยทยท
On Thu, 12 July 2001, "Laurence G. Tilley" wrote:
BBrunet <ditletang@canada.com> wrote
>On Wed, 11 July 2001, "Laurence G. Tilley" wrote:
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