Probably is, Oscar, probably is. Ed
···
From: Oscar Roura <oroura@gmail.com>
Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Playing Past Turn 10
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:48:35 +0000Hi,
From the original e-mails it is quite clear that they were going to
win. Quite clear.So, they could continue the game until the last person was eliminated
(probably around 15 quite boring turns because hunting complete
countries even in a big advantage is quite hard in MEPBM), look for
the one ring and dropping/giving it to Sauron (around 7-8 turns) or
just if the conclusion was evident ask the other team for concession.If there is no hope, why go to the final conclusion? I have been
playing a game as dark servant where it was 14 to 1, the noldo elves,
and conquering the noldo elves is quite dificult even been a lone
country!! He did not want to concede and we spent 10 turns to get the
ring to barad dur, because in the place where the ring was there were
so many artifacts in the floor because of dead freeps that our good
mages took 3 turns to get it (always cought an sword instead of it
).I understand that 10 turns is perhaps a bit earlier, but if for
example in a 1650 game in turn 10 the witch king and dragon lord are
dead, the neutrals are free, and 5-6 major towns in mordor are
destroyed while the freeps have armies in Middle mordor with all the
major agent artifacts in their hands and a curse squad... well
probably is a good idea for the dars servants to concede? isn�t it?Oskar
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:12:49 +0000, Ovatha Easterling ><ovatha88@hotmail.com> wrote:
> My inclination is to accept this conclusion. Perhaps the 'new orthodoxy'
> may be described as: Drops no problem. Short games no problem. No
> problems.
>
> The GM team wanting to terminate a game after only a few turns suggests
> other things to my waundering and musing maind. Perhaps we are dealing with
> one, or more, persons who are still focused on the outer two or three levels
> of the game. This game can be played on many levels.
>
> Now it seems to me that a low pressure game would be an excellent time to
> learn how to win with the ONE RING. In the game, as in the books, RING lore
> is hard to obtain. It requires patience, meditation, experimentation and
> failure. You fall off the tight rope before you learn to walk it. Now
> persons who lack patience, have a low frustration level, focus only on the
> military game, want a quick churn to pump up their PRS rank will certainly
> avoid ONE RING games. For players that is fine. But we are dealing with
> people who can morph a race horse into a camel with House Rules and
> accretions. If they are happy with the first two or three leayers of the
> onion, then it would follow that other levels might suffer.
> Ed Mills
>
> >From: "R.K.Floyd" <rkfloyd@charter.net>
> >Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Playing Past Turn 10
> >Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 11:52:06 -0500
>
> >
> >But when the company says early drop-outs aren't a problem, I suspect
> >it is not because they don't see it happening; I suspect it is because
> >when it happens, they don't see it as *problem*.
> >
> >** To me, drop-outs and team surrender are two totally different things.
> >"Drop out" is when a single player jets off leaving his team behind to
> >frantically put orders together for his nation that turn and find a new
> >player for the next. I really don't have a problem with the guy that says
> >"Hey, I need to get out of this game, but will play another 2 turns until
> >you guys find somebody."
> >
> >Russ
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Steven K. Mariner
> > To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com ; Steven K. Mariner
> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:32 AM
> > Subject: [mepbmlist] Playing Past Turn 10
> >
> > > From: "Kevin Brown" <mornhm@soltec.net>
> > > Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:43:50 -0000
> > > [...]
> > > This has been discussed before without too much input from
> > > "the company" except to state that this isn't a problem. I
> > > still think it is. I've seen a number of people drop or
> > > suggest dropping even when a team is winning or even.
> >
> > Well, I have a bit to share on this point.
> >
> > My team just played Clint's team this year in a grudge game. Half of
> > us were playing our first game ever.
> >
> > They're good. Really good. They obviously know quite a lot about the
> > details of the game mechanics, etc. Not exactly news, but worth
> > noting. Plus they all live in the same place (or thereabouts) and
> > meet weekly to go over their strategy and orders. Very tough to beat
> > that kind of coordination when your team is scattered across three
> > time zones and your tools are E-Mail, rare usage of an Instant
> > Messenger program, and the occassionally expensive phone call.
> >
> > Admittedly, this was a grudge game as opposed to the artistic beauty
> > of the original game intent. But it's still relevant to the point I
> > will eventually make here.
> >
> > Anyway, the Northmen held on one of the most voracious combined LR/KE
> > assaults our Team Captain had ever seen. Though the game ended with
> > some DS in the Western back area, the Team Captain evaluates that the
> > "flanks held".
> >
> > Unfortunately, a new player didn't protect against a Heavy Cav assault
> > on the Ranger Capital (did, in fact, move his defensive forced out on
> > the turn they arrived, and not as a roadblock) -- we lost the Rangers
> > on Turn 4. The *center* fell due to a number of newbie mistakes.
> >
> > And here's the relevant bit: On Turn 10 they asked us to concede.
> >
> > We initially declined. It's worth playing a bad game to learn how the
> > game works (and to see how well you react to the shifting sands of
> > your lot in life). In the end, even when losing, extracting the most
> > pain out of your enemy while dying is still a lot of fun, and you
> > still can hone your skills by playing the best of the best, so to
> > speak. You learn a lot about yourself and about Life during hard
> > times. As in Life, so in MEPBM. For us, the apparently inevitable
> > losers, there was great value in continuing. Most of the team agreed.
> >
> > However, they countered by offering to surrender to *us* in order to
> > "stop the pain" and move on to a new game. So we surrendered and
> > moved on to a new grudge game.
> >
> > My take on this is that they thought quitting when the game was
> > "obviously" over was the right thing to do.
> >
> > So of *course* they don't believe it's a problem. *They* appear to be
> > on the side of the fence that believes you play not until the
> > inevitable comes, but rather until the inevitable is inevitable.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong -- I love what Clint & company have done to
> > stabilize the availability of MEPBM. I love the modernization they're
> > undertaking (moving the code to PC, etc.). I love the idea that we
> > may soon have the option of playing games using the same (or similar)
> > rules but with new scenarios, on new maps, with new Characters, new
> > baseline assumption sets, etc.
> >
> > You guys miss the old days where fog of war included the Dragons, the
> > Riddles and the Artifacts? Here's a chance to get some of that back.
> > When they write completely new scenarios to work on completely new
> > maps, you're not going to enter the game with a detailedly set idea of
> > the strategies needed. You won't have "canned" moves. You'll have to
> > actually think about things, do both short and long term planning,
> > etc.
> >
> > It won't be Middle Earth, but it will be in the *genre* with the same
> > *rules*, while reinstating a lot of the unknowns. The game could take
> > on a lot of its old appeal in the fog-of-war department.
> >
> > So I'm very happy with Clint & company and the work they're doing.
> >
> > But when the company says early drop-outs aren't a problem, I suspect
> > it is not because they don't see it happening; I suspect it is because
> > when it happens, they don't see it as *problem*.
> >
> > Two cents and all that rot.
> >
> > _________________
> > Steven K. Mariner
> > skmyg@bhmk.com
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~marinersk/
> > http://www.whirlyjigmusic.com/
> >
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