Prisoners Playing

mepbmlist
#1

Clint: You should definately tell the gamers that there are prisoners playing in the game. Why? Many, many times I have seen prisoners run scams and cons to cheat/hurt unsuspecting citizens. In the USA jails and prisons routinely stamp outgoing mail "prisoner correspondence" and outgoing telephone calls have a recorded message that the call is coming from a prison. This is to protect the general public. In this case the people to be protected are your paying customers. You don't have to ID the particular person/position just provide a warning.

Routinely, some people will include their phone number in diplomatic correspondence going out to strangers. This , in my not inconsiderable experience, should be sanitized at your end. Prisoners can and do commit crimes while incarcerated and often guide outside accomplices to burglary and rape of unwary citizen correspondents/pen pals/phone buddies.

If you have provided warning your liability for any unfortunate incidents will be reduced or eliminated. Understand that the 'convict code" does not equal British Fairplay.

···

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#2

Good point,

BUT. I certainly don't expect Clint et al to be protecting
me from anyone not in the employ of ME Games. Period. I protect
myself. You want to consult for a Nigerian oil company? Hey, send
the 250k..fine..should Clint protect us from Nigerians playing too?

Cripes...Please let this drop...

···

--- Ovatha Easterling <ovatha88@hotmail.com> wrote:

Clint: You should definately tell the gamers that there are
prisoners
playing in the game. Why? Many, many times I have seen prisoners
run scams
and cons to cheat/hurt unsuspecting citizens.

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#3

I was once in a game where a prisoner played a neutral. Heck, he
communicated better than some of my allies who had email. He sent a very
long letter every turn detailing his turn and his future plans. He seemed
like a very nice guy. I never had the guts to ask him why he was in prison
though. :slight_smile:

R.Floyd

#4

I have to say that I fully endorse what "Ovatha Easterling" had to say here - though I do wish you chaps would use real names when writing on serious themes. Quoted in full below, because I felt it was true wisdom.

The difference Brad, between you, and someone I know to be a convicted prisoner, is that I could reasonably assume that you are probably part of the large law abiding majority, and that the convicted prisoner is not. Many of us build long term friendships through playing this game, and in the course of doing so, share personal and family information. When choosing your gaming partners and friends, you should have a right to know if there is an obvious reason to be cautious.

···

At 02:19 AM 17-02-02, Ovatha Easterling wrote:

Clint: You should definately tell the gamers that there are prisoners
playing in the game. Why? Many, many times I have seen prisoners run scams
and cons to cheat/hurt unsuspecting citizens. In the USA jails and prisons
routinely stamp outgoing mail "prisoner correspondence" and outgoing
telephone calls have a recorded message that the call is coming from a
prison. This is to protect the general public. In this case the people to
be protected are your paying customers. You don't have to ID the particular
person/position just provide a warning.

Routinely, some people will include their phone number in diplomatic
correspondence going out to strangers. This , in my not inconsiderable
experience, should be sanitized at your end. Prisoners can and do commit
crimes while incarcerated and often guide outside accomplices to burglary
and rape of unwary citizen correspondents/pen pals/phone buddies.

If you have provided warning your liability for any unfortunate incidents
will be reduced or eliminated. Understand that the 'convict code" does not
equal British Fairplay.

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

#5

- though I do wish you chaps would use real names when writing on
serious themes.

Maybe he's a prisoner....they've got email too now, eh?

The difference Brad, between you, and someone I know
to be a convicted prisoner, is that I could reasonably
assume that you are probablypart of the large law abiding
majority, and that the convicted prisoner is not.
Many of us build long term friendships through playing this
game, and in the course of doing so, share personal and family
information. When choosing your gaming partners and friends,
you should have a right to know if there is an obvious
reason to be cautious.

Don't be silly. There is always an obvious reason to be cautious.

I only had a couple of real simply points. Let me refresh them.

1) We have no "right" to confidential information that the company
keeps in trust. I damn well don't want them telling ANYONE ANYTHING
about me, and you don't know anything about me, lawabiding, place
of residence (whether it's enforced residence..or not). All you
know is that I have access to a computer ~ Not difficult in this
world, prison or no...

2) The company isn't obligated to supersede my privacy rights
to protect you. YOU PROTECT YOU in this harsh and cruel world.

The only information the company currently disperses is name and
email address on your front sheet. Some might paranoididly (word?)
suggest that's too much already. Anything else that anyone learns
about you in regards to ME is information that you yourself have
given out.

Take responsibility for yourself; let the company run their
company, and it ain't a dating service...

Regards,

Brad the Simple
.
.
and potentially dangerous, violent, repeat offender, but you'll
never know...cause frankly, it doesn't matter here...

···

--- "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

#6

2) The company isn't obligated to supersede my privacy rights
to protect you.

When an individual is convicted of a serious crime, to such an extent that society chooses to imprison him, many of his "rights" are removed. One of them, as far as I know, is his right to conceal his address. Snail mail from prison is I believe always marked as such (though perhaps someone knows otherwise). His rights to privacy have been curtailed by the need to protect others. I don't believe that Harlequin should remove this protection by acting as an identity launderer.

YOU PROTECT YOU in this harsh and cruel world.

Mmm... Sounds like a young man's confidence. The world is as harsh and cruel as you want to make it. We all have a responsibility to look out for one another, and take reasonable steps to alert others to particular dangers. It isn't enough to say "trust nobody", because most of us will, sooner or later begin to trust people we communicate with regularly. If there is a particular reason, why we should be extra-cautious of an individual, then Harlequin would, in my opinion, be morally wrong not to tell us.

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 07:48 AM 17-02-02, Player wrote:

#7

Notifying everyone in the team who is in prison and who is not. Makes
great sense because if the guy knows your address then he may come
and find you and break into your place because you killed too many of
his characters as the Cloud Lord. He is in prison after all, he's
done things like that in the past. And if you are careful and don't
kill too many of his characters he might still come after you
because, you know, he's got your address now (and everybody else's on
the planet, from yellow pages)

The only problem I see is that by notifying people who is in prison
and who isn't, we are excluding the people who WERE in prison in the
past and now they are out. Since these people are even more dangerous
(everyone knows there's no such thing as 'rehabilitation') I think it
is sensible to also add a line on everyone's frontsheet
saying 'Convicted in the past: YES/NO'. For obvious reasons please
also add 'I am taking drugs: YES/NO'. My biggest worry then is that
we don't do anything at all to notify players if people with mental
illnesses play in their team. People with a mental illness can also
be dangerous in some extreme cases and of course their illness will
be much more of a liability to the team than a prisoner's limited
communication. And of course, something has to be done about all
those homosexuals.

In any case, if all those people were persuaded to wear a red ribbon
around their wrist or something, then we'd be protected from them in
all of our transactions and not only ME-PBM..

Clint, can we do anything about it please?

Haris

#8

I appreciate that you are trying to be funny, but you are verging on very bad taste. However cynical you may wish to be, the principles of imprisonment are those of punishment, protection for the community and rehabilitation. When someone has completed their prison sentence, they are deemed to be less of a risk to the community, and, in consequence, many rights, such as the right not to tell others that they have been in prison are restored. It may seem easy to sneer at that, but you should pause for a moment to ask if you really think you know better than the police, the jury, the judge and the probation service.

We should have the right to know if we are playing with currently convicted prisoners. Obviously, people at liberty cannot be asked about their past.

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 12:10 PM 17-02-02, cn399 wrote:

The only problem I see is that by notifying people who is in prison
and who isn't, we are excluding the people who WERE in prison in the
past and now they are out. Since these people are even more dangerous
(everyone knows there's no such thing as 'rehabilitation')

#9

Excellent e-mail from Laurence on this subject.

I think that Clint should get some legal advice though, as the situation is
one fraught with complexities. And he may need to get legal advice on
established practice for all the countries they trade in.

Matthew

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>; <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Prisoners Playing

At 07:48 AM 17-02-02, Player wrote:
>2) The company isn't obligated to supersede my privacy rights
>to protect you.

When an individual is convicted of a serious crime, to such an extent that
society chooses to imprison him, many of his "rights" are removed. One of
them, as far as I know, is his right to conceal his address. Snail mail
from prison is I believe always marked as such (though perhaps someone
knows otherwise). His rights to privacy have been curtailed by the need

to

protect others. I don't believe that Harlequin should remove this
protection by acting as an identity launderer.

>YOU PROTECT YOU in this harsh and cruel world.

Mmm... Sounds like a young man's confidence. The world is as harsh and
cruel as you want to make it. We all have a responsibility to look out

for

one another, and take reasonable steps to alert others to particular
dangers. It isn't enough to say "trust nobody", because most of us will,
sooner or later begin to trust people we communicate with regularly. If
there is a particular reason, why we should be extra-cautious of an
individual, then Harlequin would, in my opinion, be morally wrong not to
tell us.

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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#10

I have to agree with both positions, here.
1) One of the most competent players I've "met" through game was
incarcerated. Also very communicative. I think prisoners should play. Heck,
I would not mind being in another game with this guy!
2) However, one of the detractions of being a prisoner is... YOU'VE
COMMITTED A CRIME!

Now we can all be very hugs and love and psycho babble about rehab ~ in fact
it does work and there are innocents in jail, but... there are also a lot of
nasty people who belong in there and who will use an opportunity to make an
opportunity.

I think the prudent policy is:
If its a known jail player, no "how to contact" information from the other
players is sent to that jail player. They can STILL do communication via
3x5s and if the players want better connectivity, they can send the
incarcerated player their info.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: R.K.Floyd [mailto:rkfloyd@charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:09 AM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Prisoners Playing

I was once in a game where a prisoner played a neutral. Heck, he
communicated better than some of my allies who had email. He sent a very
long letter every turn detailing his turn and his future plans. He seemed
like a very nice guy. I never had the guts to ask him why he was in prison
though. :slight_smile:

R.Floyd

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#11

>The only problem I see is that by notifying people who is in prison
>and who isn't, we are excluding the people who WERE in prison in the
>past and now they are out. Since these people are even more dangerous
>(everyone knows there's no such thing as 'rehabilitation')

I appreciate that you are trying to be funny, but you are verging on very
bad taste. However cynical you may wish to be, the principles of
imprisonment are those of punishment, protection for the community and
rehabilitation. When someone has completed their prison sentence, they

are

deemed to be less of a risk to the community, and, in consequence, many
rights, such as the right not to tell others that they have been in prison
are restored. It may seem easy to sneer at that, but you should pause for
a moment to ask if you really think you know better than the police, the
jury, the judge and the probation service.

We should have the right to know if we are playing with currently

convicted

prisoners. Obviously, people at liberty cannot be asked about their past.

Laurence G. Tilley

RD: point of law (unless it's been changed whilst I wasn't looking): people
discharged from prison are supposed to tell any prospective employer that
they have been inside until 3 years have elapsed from their release date.
If they fail to do so and the employer discovers it, they can be sacked
without notice.

When you consider that this applies whether you have served one month or
thirty years, and there are a lot more tiny sentences than big ones, it is
no surprise that so many petty criminals re-offend.

Also, you would be surprised to how many jobs the Rehabilitation of
Offenders Act does not apply - meaning that you must declare any prison
sentence no matter how long ago.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Laurence G. Tilley <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>; <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: Prisoners Playing

At 12:10 PM 17-02-02, cn399 wrote:

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

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