PRS redesign

Up to this point, I've put all my PRS effort into stopping the
proposed PRS by offering "no PRS" as an alternative. This seems no
longer constructive as Clint has clearly indicated he intends to
implement the proposed PRS despite the "vocal minority (named Darrell
Shimel)" opposed to it.

So, how about I take a shot at designing a better PRS that he may be
willing to go for instead.

Things a ranking system should reward:
   Win %
   Experience
   Picking up dropped positions
   Neutrals that decide early
   Neutrals that help game balance

Things it should punish:
   Transferring to a teammate
   Hard drop where MiddleEarthGames has to find a replacement

It most also give new players a "decent shot" of eventually moving
toward the top.

I'd add that it shouldn't require a code change (such as a different
Victory Point system or different Victory Conditions), shouldn't be
labor intensive, shouldn't be complex or hard to understand,
shouldn't rank a selfish player above a good team player, doesn't
require player votes, and requires no subjective decisions by ME
Games.

To accomplish all of these things I'd use Win % and a "positions
played" adjuster.

WINNING %
Win % is simple. Track the last 10 games "completed" for each
player. Wins count as 1, losses 0, transfers -1, drops –2. Divide
the sum by games completed (1-10).

If you're playing 2 positions at game end and the team wins, then it
counts as 2 games completed, 1 point for each "game". This
encourages picking up teammates positions before they hard drop.

If you're playing 2 positions at game end and lose, it only counts as
one loss. Exception is if you started the game with both positions.
Then it counts as 2 losses. This is to encourage you to pick up
teammates positions, even if it looks like you're losing.

If you're a neutral, the game doesn't count at all unless you decide
by GT10, and are one of the first 3 to join the side. This
encourages early decision and game balancing decisions. Exception
would be FA1000 where all nations still neutral on GT10 would be
considered on the "neutral alliance" meaning the game is a win if the
neutrals win, but a loss if FP or DS win. Jumping to FP or DS after
GT10 means you could get counted as a loss, even if the alliance you
join wins.

Notice that you can have a negative winning % if you drop or transfer
positions.

POSITIONS PLAYED ADJUSTER
Notice that the simple winning % accomplishes most of the things I
think a PRS should do. However, it fails to account for experience
in the ranking.

To rank players with more experience ahead of those with less while o
giving newer players a decent shot of moving up over time, Winning %
would need to be modified by an time-weighted, positions played
adjuster.

I'd track "positions played" by season, and keep 5 years worth of
seasons (20). At the start of each season, count how many positions
each player is currently playing and then add 1 every time they start
or pick up a position within the season. One-week games count as 2
for positions played since you're processing twice as many turns
during the season.

To get the win% adjuster, sum up the products of each of the 20
quarters and (20-seasons ago)/20.

If a player is always in 1 game at a time (starts a new game the
season after the last ended), the adjuster would be (1 * 20/20) +(1 *
19/20) + (1 * 18/20)... + (1*1/20) for a total of 10.5.

Twice as many games gets double the adjuster.

A player that has been in 1 game per season but has only been playing
2.5 years (10 seasons) would have an adjuster of (1 * 20/20) +(1 *
19/20) + (1 * 18/20)... + (1*10/20) = 8.25. That is about 75% as
much as a player that had been playing 1 game per season for the full
5 years.

There is no way a new player could join 10 games in one season to be
considered as good as someone that has been playing 1 game at a time
for 5 years. However, a year of playing 3 games at a time, and the
new player could get an adjuster as high as a player that has been in
1 game at a time for 5 years.

PLAYER RATING/RANKING
So, we take each player's win % and multiply it by the positions
played adjuster to get the players rating. Sort by rating, and you
get ranking.

Three games at a time for 2.5 years (24.75 adjuster) with a 60 win%=
1485
Two games at a time for 5 years (20.5 adjuster) with a 70 win% =1435
One game at a time for 5 years (10.5 adjuster) with a 50 win% = 525
New player in first game = 0
Player that drops more than wins = -ranking

Same new player as above, plays 2 games for a year (7.4 adjuster)
wins first game (100 %) and jumps to 740 rating.

I believe this system would be MUCH better than the currently
proposed system. It rewards all the things that should be rewarded.
It punishes all the things that should be punished. It would only
require mod input at the change of season, at the start and end of
each game and when someone drops or transfers. Well, they'd also
have to do a bit of work on GT10 to see if there are any undeclared
neutrals and to see if more than 3 went one way (then would have to
figure out which were the first 3). So, a bit of work every game 10.

Best of all, it would give real meaning to things like "experienced
grudge team" or "fairly new player". ME Games could create "newbie"
games only playable by people with low positions played adjusters,
and "crusty veterans" games that can only be played in by people with
high adjusters. They'd be able to better fit grudge team opposition.
They'd be able to better match players to position dificulty. They'd
be able to balance open games. "Hey Joe Newbie, too many new players
on the FP team already.... Are you sure we can't talk you into a DS
position to get you a few teammates with some experience?"

It wouldn't be hard to start up. You'd ignore all previous drops and
transfers, as people were not given fair warning of it counting as a
negative (and data probably isn't available). Also, all neutrals
that were on the winning side would get credit for the win. All I'd
need to know is when games ended, who was playing at the end of each
game, how many turns the game ran for, and whether it was a one-week
or two-week game.

Given this data, and my programming experience (15 years in software
development), I bet I could get current rankings within a few days.
With a couple weeks, I could create a MS DOS or MS Windows app that
would allow the mods to maintain the data with less than 10 minutes
per game start, game end, player drop/transfer, or turn 10 processed.

If Clint is going to implement a PRS, I hope he'll wait long enough
to get some feedback on this proposed PRS system.

Thoughts?

Darrell Shimel

So long, guys. I'm tired of reading the emails on this list complaining
about the same things over and over. It's a game. It's fun. It's a nice
distraction for when I have a few minutes to spout off some emails or look
over a turn. Some of you take this way too seriously.

See you in the game and not here,

Russ
Dragon233
Cors021
Khand225

Russ, why don't you take a more moderate step? Read selectively on the
Yahoo Groups site, or get a program like MailWasher (free I think) which
lets you read the subject line and delete mails on the server without
downloading them. That way you could ignore subjects which irritate you,
but still participate in important discussions about new issues.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 06:26 27/02/2004, R.K.Floyd wrote:

So long, guys. I'm tired of reading the emails on this list complaining
about the same things over and over. It's a game. It's fun. It's a nice
distraction for when I have a few minutes to spout off some emails or look
over a turn. Some of you take this way too seriously.

See you in the game and not here,

Russ
Dragon233
Cors021
Khand225

That's something that is perhaps a minus point on the yahoo list.
Whilst it's possible to read posts by accessing the yahoo site, the
majority of people seem to download each e-mail to their respective
hard drive.

That for me is a major plus to the mepbmforums, i.e you can only
click on the thread that interests you........i.e. you don't waste
time downloading threads for games that your not involved or subjects
that dont't interest you.

I have thought seriously of proposing a poll or something to actually
migrate the yahoo group list to the mepbm forums but I figured that
the flame war that would result would be too much effort. :slight_smile: Anyway
now, I figured what the hell.... :slight_smile:

Why would I suggest such a thing ? Well primarily, I believe that for
such a small community to be split is not a good thing. I think our
community should be united on our means of collective comunication to
focus our attention and with luck new community members will feel
easier with one place of communication to focus upon.

Thoughts ? Would it be a big deal for people to reply to a yahoo list
or to a mepbm forum ? Technicaly, whats the difference ?

Something to think about perhaps anyhow....i.e. is the yahoo list and
the forums combined worth the effort ? Lets just focus on one source
of communication ? Anyway, just something to think about.......

Cheers
Brendan McGoldrick

--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Laurence G. Tilley"
<lgtilley@m...> wrote:

>So long, guys. I'm tired of reading the emails on this list

complaining

>about the same things over and over. It's a game. It's fun. It's

a nice

>distraction for when I have a few minutes to spout off some emails

or look

>over a turn. Some of you take this way too seriously.
>
>See you in the game and not here,
>
>Russ
>Dragon233
>Cors021
>Khand225

Russ, why don't you take a more moderate step? Read selectively on

the

Yahoo Groups site, or get a program like MailWasher (free I think)

which

lets you read the subject line and delete mails on the server

without

downloading them. That way you could ignore subjects which

irritate you,

···

At 06:26 27/02/2004, R.K.Floyd wrote:
but still participate in important discussions about new issues.

mefacesmo.gif
     Laurence G.Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Each to their own. This list can do things that a forum simply can't
(better for MEGames mass communication here, I expect) and, of the 400
members, I suspect many have explored both systems and prefer this one.

Also, many people from the "Olde Worlde" claim that they're paying by the
minute, or some such, for internet time (dial up??). Getting this list via
a single email Daily Digest isn't much of a download (mostly text). The
forum requires surfing. Those of us who can connect at high speed unlimited
can do both, as our lifestyle permits.

Brad B

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "mcgoldrick_b" <mcgoldrickb@wanadoo.fr>

I have thought seriously of ......
migrate the yahoo group list to the mepbm forums

Regarding Aging expereince at a rate of 1/20th per
season.

Three games at a time for 2.5 years (24.75

adjuster)

with a 60 win%= 1485
Two games at a time for 5 years (20.5 adjuster)

with

a 70 win% =1435

The higher ranked guy plays 50% more nations but for
50% less time. It
doesn't sound like much difference, but:

3 games for 2.5 years continuously is 195 turns (26
per game per year)
2 games for 5 years continuously is 260 turns.

Not only has the 2 game at a time guy played more
turns, but his winning
percentage is also significantly (16.7%) higher.

The point of aging the points is to reward those that
continue to pay and to give newer players a good shot
of eventually moving up.

Now, my original proposal had the experience going
away at 5% per season. That means that 75% of the
score come from the most recent 2.5 years, and nothing
beyond 5 years counts at all. I don't think the rate
at which points go away should be a deal breaker. It
can be worked with.

Simply dropping the ageing down to 2.5% would
significantly affect the positions played adjuster...

So, back to the example above.

Three games at a time for 2.5 years
with a 60 win%
Two games at a time for 5 years with
a 70 win%

3*40/40 + 3*39/40 + 3*38/40... +3*31/40 = 26.625
adjuster * 60 = 1597.

2*40/40 + 2*39/40 + 2*38/40...2*21/30 = 30.5 adjuster
* 70 = 2135

It all comes down to how quickly we age the
experience. I agree with Clint that we do need to age
the scores, or new players will NEVER have a chance of
passing someone that has been playing for 10 years.

You've done a really neat piece of work putting
together that adjuster. Do
you think something similar, but based on actual
turns run instead of 'games
and seasons' might be more accurate?

I thought about that, but it would be either labor
intensive (updating ratings whenever a turn is run, or
once a week/fortnight to reflect all turns run that
period) or wouldn't be responsive enough (updating
only when games end).

I think the "once a season plus when a game starts or
ends" is a good balance of light labor requirement and
update responsiveness.

By rolling the
dropped and transfered
nations into the player's Win%, you've made that
stat meaningful. I think
most would agree that's an excellent base for a
"score".

Thanks. Spent a lot of time trying to get it "right".

The adjuster,
whatever it may be based on, shouldn't have such a
powerful effect.

It would be easy enough to post 3 or 4 "rankings"
based on this easy to understand system. It could
show the raw win%, raw experience, aged experience,
and then the final Win% times aged experience ranking.

I think the important thing is to start a rating
system with an alanysis of what behavior we want to
reward, what behavior we want to punish, and what the
"goal" is.

It is claimed that the current system will be ignored
by most, and "glanced at" by a few. Well, let's try
to come up with a system that really shows how good of
a player you are so that scoring well will be prized
and sought after by all.

So, if people really like the voting system, we can
work that in. If people hate the "aging" thing....
well, I doubt Clint will consider taking that out...
(and I don't think we should as no newbie would ever
be able to catch up) but we can work with the rate.

The things I'd HATE to see worked in is anything
involving the Victory Points, anything that rewards
drops, rewarding neutrals for riding the fence for too
long, rewarding neutrals for unbalancing a game, or
other things that reward bad play.

The one thing I like about the current system, that I
haven't figured out the best way of working in, is
considering the strength of oposition...... I'll work
on it some more. I'm thinking that at the end of each
season, we update an additional "multiplier" based on
the ratio of you and your allies rantings to the
average ratings of all the enemy in all the games
you're playing in. This would encourage good players
to play against good players instead of stomping
newbies. It would also encourage you to let newbies
into your games, then mentor them along to help you
get the win.

Darrell Shimel

···

--- Brad Brunet <bbrunec296@rogers.com> wrote:

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