In a message dated 11/22/01 6:20:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
arnheim@globalnet.co.uk writes:
I think there is a cultural difference between UK and US as between
all countries. In the US the flag is a powerful symbol, whilst the
Union Jack is more often associated with Fascists when used in non
military display. I believe Americans at school sing the national
anthem every morning or some such thing whereas we have plays about
Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed forming meaningful relationships or some
such (well OK...). I saw Bush inspecting some troops who were all
chanting USA, USA, USA... in a way you would never see UK troops or
people do (except at a football match). My point is that that
Americans are taught to proudly declare their faith in the virtues of
their country as something perfectly normal. We, who are
indoctrinated in a more subtle way, rankle at an assertion that by
default implies denigration, irrelevant of intent, of our own
glorious nation and respond to the perceived attack. The Americans
then feel attacked and respond in kind......
Chris you are wrong on some of this -- Americans don't sing the
nation Anthem in our schools unless you are at a footbal rally or some
sporting event !! Hell back in the 70's when i went to school -- we did do
the pledge of alligence -- but that has even been forgotten somewhat -- have
seen eople talking about bring it back !! The American Flag is an important
symbol to us -- It represents Freedom and is a something we can all rally
around !!
Once the knee jerk 'God created America first' (He's an Englishman,
by the way) is out the way we all seem to be able to have rational
discussion.My bit for world understanding.
We already have a form of world government, oh ignorant ones (Whoops,
sorry couldn't help it, it just slipped out) and it is in all our
interests that it be so. In a hundred international forums, EU,
Nafta, Gatt, UN, G7, NATO.... laws and agreements are being made by
countries which are binding upon them. World government is not about
the residents of Naura forcing the the residents of the US to hop
around in a circle on the third Thursday of the month chanting, it is
about peace, trade, security and the prevention of events like 9/11.
It is about regulating the behaviour, by common consent, of our
relations with each other and the very small and fragile planet we
live on. That, and therefore that kind of world government I refer
to, seems to be completely in the interests of the American people.
I agree with most of this !!
Back to my very first point. The current US administration is made up
of people, who like many of the people contributing to this
discussion, do not agree with World Government and law as opposed to
the previous US administration, which I believe did. The attitude to
Kyoto, ABM treaty and numerous other things sent out the signal,
intended or not, that the US did not care what the rest of the world
thinks and that International agreements did not matter to them. What
is the point of having a treaty with a country that tears it up when
it doesn't suit it anymore.
I don't agree with this -- The US does and the
current admin does agree what happens -- its just that we don't thinks we
should be the World Police man -- UN is to most Americans useless except in
the matter of getting Humantary supplies to another country -- America pays
3/4 of the bill for the UN and it really can't acomplish much military --
unless it has the backing of the US or Great Britons armed forces !! The USA
doesn't Tear up its treaties -- we won't agree or sign one if we don't
believe in it or it infringes on our National Security -- for example -- i
don't see whay yhe world gets in a huff when we want to invest our money in a
national missle DEFENSE -- thats the word defense -- its kind of like the
Patriot missle -- taking down any missle that enters our air space -- These
are not offensive missles !!
I hope that the good that comes out of the evil that was 9/11 is that
Bush et al understand that this world is too small to be ignored or
indeed pushed around and they continue their engagement beyond the
current coalition. An angry man with access to a lot of fertilisier
is all it takes...
Americans and our President Bush don't think the world is
to small to be ignored or pushed around -- Hell America is like a sleeping
dragon with a short memory -- once awakened we slash out and then fall back
asleep -- look at our first president bush -- we kicked Iraq's arse fast and
then forgot about it as he didn't get reelected when he was at an all time
high after the Conflict !! America likes fast action -- i just hope it can
last a sustand conflict as this one !!
Clinton was a great American, if flawed, who helped a lot of people.
The support for America is slightly less muted because of him. Lot of
Americans hated Roosevelt, arguably your greatest president. You
criticise them, they complain. You compliment them, they complain...
This i totaly disagree on -- I will ask you the same
thing i asked some Clinton lovers over here -- WHAT has he done for the USA
-- not a damn thing -- he just rode the good times and no ya can't give that
as one of the things -- alot of Americans and other don't realize that it is
our house and Senate who Make the Laws and pass them -- President only signs
off on them -- our checks and Balances -- Finally haveing a conserative House
and Senate is what gave us those good time -- was less money spent on Welfare
(ranks have been thined out for first time in our history ) and More
goverment spending !! Hell -- I like your Prime minister but i believe alot
of English and know my English family don't like him !! Think he is a great
Prime Minister !!
And yes -- I think Teddy Roosevelt was one of the Greatest
if not the greatest American Presidents to have ever Lived !! He built more
Nation Parks and preserved more wildlife refuges than any President -- he was
one of the main people to build up our armed forces -- especially our Navy to
our powerful present day navy -- painted all our navy ships white and sent
them all over the world -- Kicked the crap out of the Tripoly Pirates (where
we get the part of the marine song -- Shores of Tripoly)when every one else
was paying the tributes to use the med !! Built the Panama Canal -- I could
go on and on -- but his best saying was -- " walk softly but carry a Big
stick ""
Yes by Far our greatest President !!
Mike Welsch
Regards
Chris Courtiour
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