Can anyone tell me for sure if there is any way, any ORDER, that allows one to find out the number of warships and transports another nation has at a particular hex? This question applies to active navies and ships that may be ‘abandoned’ in a hex.
My understanding of the agent, palantir and mage scry orders is that it’s not possible to obtain that information.
And if I’m right, why not? It shouldn’t be that hard for an agent to count ships, especially if she can count the exact number of timber units produced by a town.
Addressing your last point: The agent does not count every bit of timber produced by a town. He burgles the sawmill’s office and examines their production sheet.
Won’t the 915 order tell you the presence/absence of anchored ships ? I seems to recall having seen this in a pdf but can’t find the pdf (or maybe I am mistaking)
I don’t like to make arguments based on “realism” because is a game is a game, not a world. Anyway, a mage looking through a palantir should easily be able to count ships.
Agreed. Chess was once (is?) considered a “War simlulation” of sorts . . . Yet I don’t find anything about it overly “realistic” aside from out-thinking your enemy (or getting out-thunked in my case).
It’s still realistic. As Arthedain noted, the agent is stealing some accounting documents. I disagree with the sawmills office, I’m sure there’s a tax office somewhere he can find some books with this kind of info. Remember, the amount of info depends on the ability of the agent, so weak agents won’t get this information reliably just like they’ll fail to steal from the treasurey. No big deal there, very consistent and realistic enough. While he’s wandering around doing this important work, he looks up and notices some ships in the port/harbour. “I better note that in my report.” and he continues about his work. Does he have time to go to the docks and walk every pier to get an accurate count? Naw.
scout hex says ‘anchored ships’ NOT ‘presence of anchored ships’.
it also says ‘presence of armies’
I’d say the rule book gives an indication agents can scout number of ships. I have found reading the rulebook to be pretty useful, though it can be wrong.
Anyone have any actual experience?
Besides, agents do not count ships, or timber, or read records. They get the foreman or first mate drunk and/or laid to get information. Requires no math or reading skills. Then they can spend the money allocated for their mission on booze and women (and with justification).
Feathalion (nice name-- dauntless spirit-- I often use it for one of my new characters) and Player:
Thanks for the reminder about “scout hex”, but it’s not exactly what I’m talking about. I was referring to Navies, per se, not the anchored ships report that comes with Scout Hex.
Player wrote: “Does he have time to go to the docks and walk every pier to get an accurate count? Naw.”
He’d better have time if I (Sauron or Denethor or Sangarunya) give him the orders. He has time to count, with decent precision, the number and type of troops in an army, but can’t count warships and transports?
When conducting a major naval invasion, it just might be pertinent to know if the pop. center you are heading to is protected by a large armada.
I think arguments about “realism” in the game, whether this or that rule is “realistic”, are pointless. Games just have to be “realistic” enough.
But my small gripe is that agents can learn all sorts of specific details about armies, but about NAVIES they can learn next to nothing.
I’ll agree with what has been said about interpreting an agent’s methods (access to records, bribing a servant of the enemy for information, etc), but what about use of the Palantir? This awesome device can tell you the army commander and size of the army, even armies in adjacent hexes, from half-way across Middle-earth but can in no way see if there are 2 or 20 warships in the harbor? Nonsense. I feel the game designers missed this one, and it’s not a big deal, just a bit of a boo-boo.
I think the problem is, that in classic Tolkien-esc fashion, all of the characters become enticed by the sea and start dreaming about sea gulls and far away lands!!! Therefore, they dont pay much attention!! :>
