Some thoughts on neutrals

mepbmlist
#1

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the DS conceded and has he hadn't changed allegiance he changed to FP on the final turn for a win.

There's lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It's just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

#2

I Would look at it this way.

On one occasion, where I was a neutral and decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns trying to change allegiance, which failed each time. This in itself caused a few problems.

However, I was still able to play a significant part for the DS Team, but was never able to “Change” sides during the game…and subsequently never got “The Win” although my points would have given me that if i was able to change.

So would not agree on having to change allegiance before playing for one side or the other.

In the situation mentioned, firstly the player that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to get “the win”, should hang their head in shame.

But secondly, how about a rule that says allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn…?

This way it will still allow a player to say fight for the DS, an maybe get their views changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light…

Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.

Dave

···

On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 “ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn’t changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There’s lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It’s just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: http://www.middleearthgames.comwww.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

#3

Or there is the possibility of when someone does the change allegiance order, it just works automatically. It is hard enough when switching due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.

And like in other games where you have to have changed allegiance by a certain point in the game. If you don’t, you stay neutral and cannot “win” even if you are playing with a team.

d

I Would look at it this way.

On one occasion, where I was a neutral and decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns trying to change allegiance, which failed each time. This in itself caused a few problems.

However, I was still able to play a significant part for the DS Team, but was never able to “Change” sides during the game…and subsequently never got “The Win” although my points would have given me that if i was able to change.

So would not agree on having to change allegiance before playing for one side or the other.

In the situation mentioned, firstly the player that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to get “the win”, should hang their head in shame.

But secondly, how about a rule that says allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn…?

This way it will still allow a player to say fight for the DS, an maybe get their views changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light…

Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.

Dave

···

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, “Dave Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 “ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn’t changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There’s lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It’s just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: http://www.middleearthgames.comwww.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

#4

A bit treachery helps to spice up the game.

David

···

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dawn Wilson d_m_w_68@yahoo.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:12
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Or there is the possibility of when someone does the change allegiance order, it just works automatically. It is hard enough when switching due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.

And like in other games where you have to have changed allegiance by a certain point in the game. If you don’t, you stay neutral and cannot “win” even if you are playing with a team.

d

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, “Dave Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I Would look at it this way.

On one occasion, where I was a neutral and decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns trying to change allegiance, which failed each time. This in itself caused a few problems.

However, I was still able to play a significant part for the DS Team, but was never able to “Change” sides during the game…and subsequently never got “The Win” although my points would have given me that if i was able to change.

So would not agree on having to change allegiance before playing for one side or the other.

In the situation mentioned, firstly the player that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to get “the win”, should hang their head in shame.

But secondly, how about a rule that says allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn…?

This way it will still allow a player to say fight for the DS, an maybe get their views changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light…

Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.

Dave

On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 “ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn’t changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There’s lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It’s just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: http://www.middleearthgames.comwww.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

#5

I think Neutrals don't need any more help at present, they're popular and strong.

Clint

Or there is the possibility of when someone does the change allegiance order, it just works automatically. It is hard enough when switching due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.

And like in other games where you have to have changed allegiance by a certain point in the game. If you don't, you stay neutral and cannot "win" even if you are playing with a team.

d

I Would look at it this way.
On one occasion, where I was a neutral and decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns trying to change allegiance, which failed each time. This in itself caused a few problems.
However, I was still able to play a significant part for the DS Team, but was never able to "Change" sides during the game..and subsequently never got "The Win" although my points would have given me that if i was able to change.
So would not agree on having to change allegiance before playing for one side or the other.
In the situation mentioned, firstly the player that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to get "the win", should hang their head in shame.
But secondly, how about a rule that says allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn..?
This way it will still allow a player to say fight for the DS, an maybe get their views changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light..
Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.

Dave

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn't changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There's lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed all egiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It's just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

At 16:12 12/09/2017, you wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, "Dave >Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 "ME Games Ltd >>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

#6

Yes... :slight_smile:

C

A bit treachery helps to spice up the game.

David

Sent from <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10

From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Dawn Wilson d_m_w_68@yahoo.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:12
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Or there is the possibility of when someone does the change allegiance order, it just works automatically. It is hard enough when switching due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.

And like in other games where you have to have changed allegiance by a certain point in the game. If you don't, you stay neutral and cannot "win" even if you are playing with a team.

d

I Would look at it this way.
On one occasion, where I was a neutral and decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns trying to change allegiance, which failed each time. This in itself caused a few problems.
However, I was still able to play a significant part for the DS Team, but was never able to "Change" sides during the game..and subsequently never got "The Win" although my points would have given me that if i was able to change.
So would not agree on having to change allegiance before playing for one side or the other.
In the situation mentioned, firstly the player that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to get "the win", should hang their head in shame.
But secondly, how about a rule that says allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn..?
This way it will still allow a player to say fight for the DS, an maybe get their views changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light..
Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.

Dave
< div>

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn't changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There's lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It's just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

At 16:16 12/09/2017, you wrote:

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, "Dave >Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 "ME Games Ltd >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

#7

It’s been only once or twice that I’ve played a neutral and thinking has always been difficult but, given what’s been said about needing upgrades and downgrades to successfully change allegiance, is it possible to fight for one side and then declare for the other at the game’s end?

David

···

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:27
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Yes… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:16 12/09/2017, you wrote:

A bit treachery helps to spice up the game.

David

Sent from https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986Mail for Windows 10

From: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.comDawn
Wilson d_m_w_68@yahoo.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:12
To: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Or there is the possibility of when someone does
the change allegiance order, it just works
automatically. It is hard enough when switching
due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.

And like in other games where you have to have
changed allegiance by a certain point in the
game. If you don’t, you stay neutral and cannot
“win” even if you are playing with a team.

d

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, “Dave >Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I Would look at it this way.
On one occasion, where I was a neutral and
decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns
trying to change allegiance, which failed each
time. This in itself caused a few problems.
However, I was still able to play a significant
part for the DS Team, but was never able to
“Change” sides during the game…and subsequently
never got “The Win” although my points would
have given me that if i was able to change.
So would not agree on having to change
allegiance before playing for one side or the other.
In the situation mentioned, firstly the player
that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to
get “the win”, should hang their head in shame.
But secondly, how about a rule that says
allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn…?
This way it will still allow a player to say
fight for the DS, an maybe get their views
changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light…
Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.

Dave
< div>
On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 “ME Games Ltd >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn’t changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There’s lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It’s just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: http://www.middleearthgames.comwww.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Virus-free.
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclientwww.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: http://www.middleearthgames.comwww.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

#8

It’s been only once or twice that I’ve played a neutral and thinking has always been difficult but, given what’s been said about needing upgrades and downgrades to successfully change allegiance, is it possible to fight for one side and then declare for the other at the game’s end?

Yes, and it's been done recently.

David

Sent from <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10

From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:27
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Yes... :slight_smile:

C

>A bit treachery helps to spice up the game.
>
>David
>
>Sent from <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10
>
>From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Dawn
>Wilson d_m_w_68@yahoo.com [mepbmlist]
>Sent: 12 September 2017 16:12
>To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals
>
>Or there is the possibility of when someone does
>the change allegiance order, it just works
>automatically. It is hard enough when switching
>due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.
>
>And like in other games where you have to have
>changed allegiance by a certain point in the
>game. If you don't, you stay neutral and cannot
>"win" even if you are playing with a team.
>
>d
>
>I Would look at it this way.
>On one occasion, where I was a neutral and
>decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns
>trying to change allegiance, which failed each
>time. This in itself caused a few problems.
>However, I was still able to play a significant
>part for the DS Team, but was never able to
>"Change" sides during the game..and subsequently
>never got "The Win" although my points would
>have given me that if i was able to change.
>So would not agree on having to change
>allegiance before playing for one side or the other.
>In the situation mentioned, firstly the player
>that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to
>get "the win", should hang their head in shame.
>But secondly, how about a rule that says
>allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn..?
>This way it will still allow a player to say
>fight for the DS, an maybe get their views
>changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light..
>Neutrals will then at least know that they have to swap side before last turn.
>
>Dave
>< div>
>
>Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)
>
>So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
>DS conceded and has he hadn't changed allegiance he changed to FP on
>the final turn for a win.
>
>There's lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
>changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
>allegiance before they
>
>However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
>grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.
>
>It's just a discussion but thoughts welcome.
>
>Clint
>
>Middle Earth Games Ltd
>
>Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com
>
>Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com
>
>Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
>
>Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
>UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
>(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
>
>Virus-free.
><http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium= email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

>

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

At 16:16 12/09/2017, you wrote:
>On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, "Dave > >Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 "ME Games Ltd > >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]" <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

#9

One advantage of 4th Age games, cannot change allegiance after turn 12, no silliness like that. :wink:

···

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 13, 2017 04:30 AM
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

It’s been only once or twice that I’ve
played a neutral and thinking has always been
difficult but, given what’s been said about
needing upgrades and downgrades to successfully
change allegiance, is it possible to fight for
one side and then declare for the other at the game’s end?

Yes, and it’s been done recently.

David

Sent from <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10

From: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.comME Games
Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:27
To: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Yes… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:16 12/09/2017, you wrote:

A bit treachery helps to spice up the game.

David

Sent from
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10

From: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.comDawn
Wilson d_m_w_68@yahoo.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 12 September 2017 16:12
To: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

Or there is the possibility of when someone does
the change allegiance order, it just works
automatically. It is hard enough when switching
due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.

And like in other games where you have to have
changed allegiance by a certain point in the
game. If you don’t, you stay neutral and cannot
“win” even if you are playing with a team.

d

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, “Dave > >Pearson dave@reklan.co.uk [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I Would look at it this way.
On one occasion, where I was a neutral and
decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns
trying to change allegiance, which failed each
time. This in itself caused a few problems.
However, I was still able to play a significant
part for the DS Team, but was never able to
“Change” sides during the game…and subsequently
never got “The Win” although my points would
have given me that if i was able to change.
So would not agree on having to change
allegiance before playing for one side or the other.
In the situation mentioned, firstly the player
that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to
get “the win”, should hang their head in shame.
But secondly, how about a rule that says
allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn…?
This way it will still allow a player to say
fight for the DS, an maybe get their views
changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light…
Neutrals will then at least know that they
have to swap side before last turn.

Dave
< div>
On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 “ME Games Ltd > >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]” mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
DS conceded and has he hadn’t changed allegiance he changed to FP on
the final turn for a win.

There’s lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It’s just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

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#10

Um, that's an interesting point. In KS we've set it up so that you get bonuses for changing early (and they get less as the game goes on). So it encourages a by turn 10 change in that as well.

What would a 1650/2950 bonus scheme look like? Thoughts welcome...

Clint

One advantage of 4th Age games, cannot change allegiance after turn 12, no silliness like that. :wink:

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 13, 2017 04:30 AM
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals

>
>It’s been only once or twice that I’ve
>played a neutral and thinking has always been
>difficult but, given what’s been said about
>needing upgrades and downgrades to successfully
>change allegiance, is it possible to fight for
>one side and then declare for the other at the game’s end?

Yes, and it's been done recently.

>
>David
>
>Sent from <<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail>https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10
>
>From: <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME Games
>Ltd <mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
>Sent: 12 September 2017 16:27
>To: <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals
>
>Yes... :slight_smile:
>
>C
>
> >A bit treachery helps to spice up the game.
> >
> >David
> >
> >Sent from
> <<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail>https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10
> >
> >From: <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Dawn?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Dawn
> >Wilson <mailto:d_m_w_68@yahoo.com>d_m_w_68@yahoo.com [mepbmlist]
> >Sent: 12 September 2017 16:12
> >To: <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Some thoughts on neutrals
> >
> >Or there is the possibility of when someone does
> >the change allegiance order, it just works
> >automatically. It is hard enough when switching
> >due to all the upgrades/downgrades that must go off as well.
> >
> >And like in other games where you have to have
> >changed allegiance by a certain point in the
> >game. If you don't, you stay neutral and cannot
> >"win" even if you are playing with a team.
> >
> >d
> >
> >I Would look at it this way.
> >On one occasion, where I was a neutral and
> >decided to go to the DS, I spent around 8 turns
> >trying to change allegiance, which failed each
> >time. This in itself caused a few problems.
> >However, I was still able to play a significant
> >part for the DS Team, but was never able to
> >"Change" sides during the game..and subsequently
> >never got "The Win" although my points would
> >have given me that if i was able to change.
> >So would not agree on having to change
> >allegiance before playing for one side or the other.
> >In the situation mentioned, firstly the player
> >that fought for the DS and swapped to FP just to
> >get "the win", should hang their head in shame.
> >But secondly, how about a rule that says
> >allegiance changes are not allowed on the last turn..?
> >This way it will still allow a player to say
> >fight for the DS, an maybe get their views
> >changed and then swap to the FP because they have seen the light..
> >Neutrals will then at least know that they
> have to swap side before last turn.
> >
> >Dave
> >< div>
> >
> >Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)
> >
> >So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the
> >DS conceded and has he hadn't changed allegiance he changed to FP on
> >the final turn for a win.
> >
> >There's lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not
> >changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change
> >allegiance before they
> >
> >However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour
> >grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.
> >
> >It's just a discussion but thoughts welcome.
> >
> >Clint
> >
> >Middle Earth Games Ltd
> >
> >Website: <<http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com
> >
> >Email: <<mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com
> >
> >Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
> >
> >Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
> >UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
> >(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
> >
> >Virus-free.
> ><<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medi um=>http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient><http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com

>
> >
>
>Middle Earth Games Ltd
>
>Website: <<http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com
>
>Email: <<mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com
>
>Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
>
>Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
>UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
>(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
>
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>

Middle Earth Games Ltd

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Email: <<mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

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···

At 09:38 13/09/2017, you wrote:

-----Original Message-----
>At 16:16 12/09/2017, you wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 10:05 AM, "Dave > > >Pearson > <mailto:dave@reklan.co.uk>dave@reklan.co.uk > [mepbmlist]" > <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >On 12 September 2017 at 15:02 "ME Games Ltd > > ><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEart > hGames.com [mepbmlist]" > <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

#11

you could limit the number of characters a neutral can have until it declares to a side.
Say -5 to the turn limit. Or a simple cap at 15 unless declared.

something like that

···

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 8:02 AM, ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Neutrals seem to have a big impact on the game (maybe the deciding factor?)

So we recently had a player clearly on the side of the DS, then the

DS conceded and has he hadn’t changed allegiance he changed to FP on

the final turn for a win.

There’s lots of games where the neutrals are acting on a team but not

changed allegiance. I was wondering if they should have to change

allegiance before they

However this does take away the surprise turn-about (not sour

grapes!) which favours some Neutral style of playing.

It’s just a discussion but thoughts welcome.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Posted by: ME Games Ltd me@middleearthgames.com

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