Suggestion for 1650

Ok guys here is a suggestion

From now on, I suggest that once Harad / Corsairs have
joined 1 allegiance, the other should not be able to
join that same allegiance

Heres my reasoning:

In too many games, Harad and Corsairs go the same way,
and, if both positions are active and half competent,
this is a massive, and pretty much game-determining
boost to a side

It would be much more fun, and better to have the game
balance, to prevent both joining the same side. Of
course, there would be nothing to stop both staying
neutral, or 1 going for an allegiance and the other
staying neutral - but hopefully this would introduce a
bit of 'needle' between the positions, which otherwise
too often cooperate from game start

Cheers

Mike

···

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Hi Mike. I'm not so sure. Whilst I see your reasoning in terms of
balance, I think there's an internal consistency issue - if these
nations are neutral, why on earth should they not declare as they
please? I think their neutrality is based on an idea of Tolkien's world
as it might have been in 1650.

If Harad and Cor are to have these restrictions, then why not, say Rhu
and Dun?

Personally, I like pre-aligned neutrals games (IIRC you do to). In most
of those, Easterlings has been left dead, for the sake of balance, but I
think that 3FP neutrals and 2DS neutrals makes the best game.

I've been in one game where 1 neutral got knocked out early, and 4
declared the same way. It wasn't very satisfying. So that begs the
question: Should we scrap the idea of neutrals all together?

I'd keep the neutrals, but I think the game would be better if they
started off a lot weaker. These are the nations which are not ready for
war, they should have 2950 type set ups. There should be no opportunity
for them to launch an assault on T1. It should be possible for an
aggressive neighbour to go squish them, and this would make it necessary
for those playing neutrals to do some of the running in the diplomacy
game: "Please don't kill me, I expect to join your side, and make a
contribution." "If you bring an army to my capital, to protect me
against the dastardly xxxxxx, then I'll probably join your side when
I've built up my nation."

And of course, if they were the weakest 5 nations in the game (instead
of Woo, Nor etc.) then the impact of their declaration on the balance,
would be more measured. Who really cares about what the Rhu do, or what
the RhE do in 2950? They alter the situation locally, but they don't
tilt the whole of the game world.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

···

Mike Barber <mbarber999@yahoo.com> wrote

From now on, I suggest that once Harad / Corsairs have
joined 1 allegiance, the other should not be able to
join that same allegiance

I think that goes a bit against the neutral definition... A neutral should not be forced to join one
side or another, that's their edge.

Perhaps making some twist in the VC, in such a way that the Corsairs would benefit more with Harad
suffering and vice versa.

Will

···

>From now on, I suggest that once Harad / Corsairs have
>joined 1 allegiance, the other should not be able to
>join that same allegiance

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@l...> wrote:

I'd keep the neutrals, but I think the game would be better if
they started off a lot weaker. These are the nations which are
not ready for war, they should have 2950 type set ups. There
should be no opportunity for them to launch an assault on T1.
It should be possible for an aggressive neighbour to go squish
them, and this would make it necessary for those playing neutrals
to do some of the running in the diplomacy game: "Please don't
kill me, I expect to join your side, and make a contribution."
"If you bring an army to my capital, to protect me against the
dastardly xxxxxx, then I'll probably join your side when I've
built up my nation."

And of course, if they were the weakest 5 nations in the game
(instead of Woo, Nor etc.) then the impact of their declaration
on the balance, would be more measured. Who really cares about
what the Rhu do, or what the RhE do in 2950? They alter the
situation locally, but they don't tilt the whole of the game world.

The problem IMHO with making Rhudaur weak, is that canonly, Rhudaur
during the 1650ish area, was strong. It was almost as strong as
Cardolan and Arthedain. It's problem was that it's leadership got
mixed with non-dunadains, and it's closeness to Angmar made it a prime
target for the manipulation of the Witch King. Also during the times
after the breakup of Arnor, Rhudaur, Cardolan and Arthedain fought
wars over territories, espesially the borderlands around Amon Sul
(weathertop).

If you weaken the Duns and Rhudaur, IMHO you have to strengthen the
Witch King, because without the chance of the backup for a semi-strong
Rhudaur, it's a piece of cake to walk over him with Arthedain and
Cardolan, which, if you look at it 'historically', was not something
which happened in Tolkien's world. In fact, was the other way around.
Arthedain got wiped out by Angmar.

oysteint@ifi.uio.no wrote

If you weaken the Duns and Rhudaur, IMHO you have to strengthen the
Witch King, because without the chance of the backup for a semi-strong
Rhudaur, it's a piece of cake to walk over him with Arthedain and
Cardolan, which, if you look at it 'historically', was not something
which happened in Tolkien's world. In fact, was the other way around.
Arthedain got wiped out by Angmar.

Agree. The rationale for a stronger, self sustaining WiK seems to be
coming up again, as it did on the sub-thread about slow caravans. I'm
in favour of a stronger, self sustaining WiK. Angmar should be a little
Mordor in the North.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

Not sure what the numbers are here. Duns and Rhudaur appear to go separate
ways. Note 50/50 chance of going same way. :slight_smile:

Clint

···

Ok guys here is a suggestion

From now on, I suggest that once Harad / Corsairs have
joined 1 allegiance, the other should not be able to
join that same allegiance

Heres my reasoning:

In too many games, Harad and Corsairs go the same way,
and, if both positions are active and half competent,
this is a massive, and pretty much game-determining
boost to a side

It would be much more fun, and better to have the game
balance, to prevent both joining the same side. Of
course, there would be nothing to stop both staying
neutral, or 1 going for an allegiance and the other
staying neutral - but hopefully this would introduce a
bit of 'needle' between the positions, which otherwise
too often cooperate from game start

Cheers

Mike

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