Surprise overrun

OK, I’m now very confused about overruns.

I had a small-ish cavalry army at my fortified popcenter in the mountains. The enemy had a huge army just outside but would enter on a road, i.e. 6 movement points for fed infantry, 8 for unfed.

My unfed cavalry moved XX h h h h h h h YY, where XX is away from the enemy on the road into a plains hex, and YY is back into the mountain hex.

How could I be overrun? I mean, even if they were unfed infantry, it would take them 8 movement points to move in, and on the 9th when attempting to move out, they would have been stopped by the fort. I moved out on the road to the plains (2 points) and sat for 7 movement points so should have been safe at while the fortification blocked them, and then finally moved back in.

How was I overrun? Does anyone have a clue? It was my understanding that:

  1. an army trying to exit a hex first encounteres any armies there and then the fortification
  2. You can only be overrun if you or the enemy army is exiting a hex.

I didn’t exit the mountain hex and they should have been blocked before I moved in…???

It was explained to me is that a fort doesn’t stop overruns even if it stops movement as long as there is a movement point available and the army attempts to move it will do the overrun.

Does your report say you moved at all?

Here is a guess.

Fed infantry moving evasively into a mountain hex along the road requires 12 movement points and you ran into the army when you returned on movement point 10.

Enemy force needed at least 12 points to complete their landing. And 13 to ensure overrun as the overrun occurs when attempting to move thru, regardless of success.


Enemy moves in
Home until 13
Attempt to move out 14 regardless of fortification and points required

Overrun is calculated before success.

To be safe your cav needs to arrive pulse 14.

Well, several of the replies here don’t address the scenario I raised, so I will re-state it more clearly in case there is any confusion.

Great big unfed army moves into the mountains ON THE ROAD, so 8 movement points. Small army moves into the same hex after doing 9 home orders. Per my understanding, on the 9th movement point the big army could be trying to move out and meet the fortifications, and then on turn 10 the small army moves safely in. So the overrun doesn’t seem to make sense.

The only explanation I have heard (from E3) that makes sense is that the big army did a home order before moving out.

I have heard lots of different thoughts on Fortifications and overruns. My 2-cents.
I also assume there are no other armies involved in the hex.

Your cav moved back into hex MP 10-13 (might as well held one more point to get to 14).

  1. Fed inf should have issued two hex movement orders, one into hex and the other out of hex to try to overrun armies. So not knowing your location he might have moved a different direction vs towards your cav. So say Mt road to Mt road. 1-6 to hex one, 7 to 12 hex two. Overrun as you move in on T10?
  2. Un-Fed inf. issues two hex movement orders. So say Mt road 1-8 to hex one, then road plains would be 9-12. Overrun as you move in T10.
    This is my belief on how overruns work and how I play the game to avoid or cause overruns.

Jeremy - forgot to say that I do not believe the incoming army stops on the first movement pt out of the hex but I could be wrong. Thus, the inf army would not stop movement on turn 7 or 9 in my thoughts above.

Always work your movement orders when knowing you’re being stopped by fortifications to push that 14th in any old direction exactly for this reason. A good team captain of mine is getting tired of checking my orders to ensure I do this “Why isn’t this automatic by now??” he keeps asking…

It has always been my understanding that the movement to a new hex takes place on the first impulse of the movement cost, and the rest of the movement cost is spent in-hex. If this is truly the case, the big army moves into the fortified hex on the same impulse that your small army moves out. Who goes first is random. So my understanding is that the big army randomly moved first into the fortified hex on impulse 1, and your army moved out next, also on impulse 1. And that exit caused the overrun.

This understanding of army movement comes from an article called “Army Movement in MePBM” in “From the Mouth of Sauron” Issue 29.

I think that, unless moving towards each other, all armies move simultaneously on the first movement point.

Your first missive suggested your opponent had a Huge army that was either fed or unfed.

Your follow up missive said the “Great Big Unfed Army”. Which is it fed or unfed?

Something you did allowed the overrun.

If the enemy army was indeed unfed, my thought is you were overrun because you did not allow the enemy force to stop movement. Unfed infantry required 8 points to move in, but in reality, they entered the hex on the 1st impulse, not the first day and not the 8th day. (in this case each impulse = more than 1 point if it’s unfed) and the attempt to move out would require 3 more movement points (or 1.33 for that 1st impulse out of the hex) being unfed. At the bare minimum, moving unfed infantry required 9.33 movement points before the fort would stop it and that rounds down to 9 even though it was more than 9 but less than 10. You began movement after your 9th impulse, so between 9.01 and 9.33 you were overrun as you moved into his army before the Fort officially stopped it from moving out.
Unfed infantry attempting to move thru required more than 9 but less than 10.
You began moving after 9 and we all know the 1st impulse to reach 10 began at 9.01, which puts you in the mountain hex even if it’s not officially the completion of the 10th pulse. But it’s definitely after 9. And it’s that point in time where you got caught. d