Team Economics

Why would the Eothraim "buy" mounts from the Woodmen?
It's a TEAM GAME! The mounts go to he who would/could/can
use them, or they're sold to keep the market down (as a FP).
Every transfer cost 10% - the concept of "trade" as such
within a "team" is ludicrous!

As for the FP needing money - Wood, North and Eothraim are
always popular...but what about Cardolan? After the starting
army holocaust, they "should" be recruiting 1400 + HI a turn,
and sending them off on 2-3-4 turn marches. This gets
expensive! They hire for free and name 40 commanders - naked
HI is what they DO.

As for the FP sending money - why not have the Dwarves up
taxes to 100% and ship out 20k a turn? Haven't heard a really
good argument against it yet. If the Fire King is influencing
away the Dwarven towns in the White Mountains as a result of
the loyalty drop - well...it's too late anyway, don't blame
the taxes... SG and Noldo are always good for money, then
Arthedain and sometimes Cardolan (IF Rhudaur goes free early).
Northern Gondor, frankly, can spend it's money on troops and
characters - and hey, why not buy timber on turn 1 and
improve the fortifications on Minas Ithil? Either way, they
should be too busy to ship money around.

(as an aside, if your Eothraim hasn't bothered to raise taxes
and is buying steel with money begged from allies, they had
better damn well be burning 1/2 of Mordor to the ground...
mine is, so I send them 30g's and wish them well...)

Regards,

Brad the Rhudaur

···

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Player wrote:

Why would the Eothraim "buy" mounts from the Woodmen?
It's a TEAM GAME! The mounts go to he who would/could/can
use them, or they're sold to keep the market down (as a FP).
Every transfer cost 10% - the concept of "trade" as such
within a "team" is ludicrous!

I have to disagree here, especially with a commodity with a wide market spread like mounts. The WM can't afford to give the EO free stuff, since they don't have enough money as it is. The EO need cheap mounts. So, simply do a swap at a "mid-market" price.

For example, if mounts are 10/5, have the WM "sell" his mounts to the EO at 7 each. Both sides come out ahead, even with the 10% free.

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

I understand the concept. It's often an excellent way to build
relations with neutrals. But the Eothraim, with 5 MT's to recruit
from in order to face often 1/2 of Mordor, has no business
buying mounts from anyone, Woodmen or market, IMHO, unless an
extremely sound long term strategy is proposed that
necessitates such an exchange - rare enough indeed.

On a slightly related economic note: Surplus nations can ship
product instead of gold, especially when they're being stolen
dry. Zero gold in Harad's treasury with a 20k surplus due to
8 agents all over you, and he can still Teleport thousands of
pieces of (now 320!) saleable material to allies.

Cheers,

Brad

···

--- Jason Bennett <jasonab@acm.org> wrote:

Player wrote:
> Why would the Eothraim "buy" mounts from the Woodmen?
> It's a TEAM GAME! The mounts go to he who would/could/can
> use them, or they're sold to keep the market down (as a FP).
> Every transfer cost 10% - the concept of "trade" as such
> within a "team" is ludicrous!

I have to disagree here, especially with a commodity with a wide
market
spread like mounts. The WM can't afford to give the EO free stuff,
since
they don't have enough money as it is. The EO need cheap mounts. So,
simply do a swap at a "mid-market" price.

For example, if mounts are 10/5, have the WM "sell" his mounts to the
EO
at 7 each. Both sides come out ahead, even with the 10% free.

      jason

______________________________________________________________________
Movies, Music, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca

Player wrote:
> Why would the Eothraim "buy" mounts from the Woodmen?
> It's a TEAM GAME! The mounts go to he who would/could/can
> use them, or they're sold to keep the market down (as a FP).
> Every transfer cost 10% - the concept of "trade" as such
> within a "team" is ludicrous!

I have to disagree here, especially with a commodity with a wide market
spread like mounts. The WM can't afford to give the EO free stuff, since
they don't have enough money as it is. The EO need cheap mounts. So,
simply do a swap at a "mid-market" price.

For example, if mounts are 10/5, have the WM "sell" his mounts to the EO
at 7 each. Both sides come out ahead, even with the 10% free.

jason

If the EoT neads MO the nation that have them shut sent them and it the Woo
neads gold the team shut send him gold.
That is tha only way to play

Player wrote:
  > Why would the Eothraim "buy" mounts from the Woodmen?
  > It's a TEAM GAME! The mounts go to he who would/could/can
  > use them, or they're sold to keep the market down (as a FP).
  > Every transfer cost 10% - the concept of "trade" as such
  > within a "team" is ludicrous!

  I have to disagree here, especially with a commodity with a wide market
  spread like mounts. The WM can't afford to give the EO free stuff, since
  they don't have enough money as it is. The EO need cheap mounts. So,
  simply do a swap at a "mid-market" price.

  For example, if mounts are 10/5, have the WM "sell" his mounts to the EO
  at 7 each. Both sides come out ahead, even with the 10% free.

                    jason
  RD: I agree with Brad. If Woodies are getting gold from Noldo or Gondor, they should not need to charge Eot gold!

  I guess if both parties agree it's ok, but I don't like it as a general principle. If I have a product which an ally needs and which I can spare, I send it, no strings. And I expect my allies to do the same!

  Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Jason Bennett
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 8:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Team Economics

  --
  Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
  E pur si muove!

  Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
  To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Richard DEVEREUX wrote:

> jason RD: I agree with Brad. If Woodies are getting gold from Noldo
> or Gondor, they should not need to charge Eot gold!
>
> I guess if both parties agree it's ok, but I don't like it as a
> general principle. If I have a product which an ally needs and which
> I can spare, I send it, no strings. And I expect my allies to do the
> same!

I saw it as a way to reduce NG or NO giving to the WM. Of course, if the EO can't afford it, that's a different story.

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

As for the FP needing money - Wood, North and Eothraim are
always popular...but what about Cardolan? After the starting
army holocaust, they "should" be recruiting 1400 + HI a turn,
and sending them off on 2-3-4 turn marches. This gets
expensive! They hire for free and name 40 commanders - naked
HI is what they DO.

RD: Hiring armies at zero cost is a HUGE economy. Nontheless I confess the last time I played Cardolan, I needed gold transfusions.

As for the FP sending money - why not have the Dwarves up
taxes to 100% and ship out 20k a turn? Haven't heard a really
good argument against it yet. If the Fire King is influencing
away the Dwarven towns in the White Mountains as a result of
the loyalty drop - well...it's too late anyway, don't blame
the taxes...

RD: Having played Dwarves twice recently, I can say that raising taxes to 100% or even 80% is a really bad idea. Sure, you generate loadsa gold for the first few turns and can afford to be generous to your allies. But every camp you create or post goes pop! within a couple of turns, and you can easily lose starting pops (even if fortified) to DS emis/dragons.

If as Dwarves you go down the road of high taxation, you find that when the camp limit is reached, you haven't gained any pops, and may well have lost some. With minimum pops and market prices at rock bottom, your economy is struggling even before you try to hire those new hi (with bonus training!) armies you want.

Far better to go for a sustainable 60% tax rate, put down (and keep!) as many camps as you can with non-battling army commanders as well as emis, and visit Mirrormere every 3rd turn.

  SG and Noldo are always good for money, then
Arthedain and sometimes Cardolan (IF Rhudaur goes free early).
Northern Gondor, frankly, can spend it's money on troops and
characters - and hey, why not buy timber on turn 1 and
improve the fortifications on Minas Ithil? Either way, they
should be too busy to ship money around.

(as an aside, if your Eothraim hasn't bothered to raise taxes
and is buying steel with money begged from allies, they had
better damn well be burning 1/2 of Mordor to the ground...
mine is, so I send them 30g's and wish them well...)

Regards,

Brad the Rhudaur

RD: Of course Eot, like all other FP, should raise taxes to 60%. But BUYING steel should be anathema to FP! Surely you realise that this pushes steel prices up? This benefits the DS economy far more than FP. Forgive me if you already know this, but the starting DS pops are mostly in rough/mountain terrain, producing metals: mithril, steel, bronze. Every time FP buy one of these products, you help the DS economy.

Far better for FP to send in their troops stark naked (as at least one Germanic tribe did against the Romans) than to help the DS economy, which will be struggling if you've done the rest of your economic job right.

Also, Noldo, Arthedain and Dwarves should have camped every mountain hex in the Blue mountains, and the Gondors the White mountains, so FP should have enough bronze/steel to equip priority armies without recourse to the market. Well that's my advice anyway - ignore it if you wish!

Richard.

···

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