Regardless of the wording of the house rules and the fact that most
players by the admission of those writing on this that most do not
read them very closely if at all; the fact remains that it is your
responsibility to check your turns for accuracy.
I have had a few times where the wrong orders were input and when
checked with the message sent to ME Games for the orders that were
indeed given the corrections were made. This is however before the
next turn was run. Not the same situation as what happened in the
setup for the Aussie game, but did no one on the 12 member Aussie
team look at their teams relations for the entire two weeks before
the first set of input orders were run? For a team as good as the
Aussie team is reputed to be I find it incredible that no one in that
entire period did not realize one of their allies did not have the
correct relations with his team mates, especially the nation that did
not have the proper relations. The time to notice this and have it
corrected is before the next turn is run not after.
I am sorry guys but from the fact statements on this topic it appears
to me as an outside observer, that you guys did not catch a problem
and make your complaint in a timely fashion. The moderator would have
been obligated to correct the initial set up prior to the first turn
had you brought up the problem. After the turn is run it is too late,
to go back and essentially double the work of the moderator to
completely run the turn again to your satisfaction when you made no
complaints to let them know you had problems with the set up in the
first place. It makes you guys look like you were so confident or
complacent that you failed to make sure the game was set up to your
specifications and just wrote down orders assuming they would be
processed based on your perceived relations rather than those
actually showing on your turn sheet. As Clint has said they run many
games daily, for them to go back after a game turn has been run and
redo it creates work that interferes with the running of the next
days turn processing. 14 days and 12 players to not catch such a
glaring error means it wasn't looked at by you guys, how do you
expect ME Games to catch it when you didn't and they are running
dozens of games?
Now if this was a regular occurance for you guys having problems with
customer service I could see your leaving the game. This reaction
however seems in my opinion a bit extreme.
But what if no turns had to be re-run (excepting the one in question),
because the relations had no conceivable effect on any order outcome? This
is tricky, as so many Character orders are effected by Relations..
The moderator would have
been obligated to correct the initial set up prior to the first turn
had you brought up the problem. After the turn is run it is too late,
to go back and essentially double the work of the moderator to
completely run the turn again ...
Hey guys, hate to see you leave over something like this however
when a company has a monopoly over a product not much you can do
rather than refuse to give them your money.
I think I mentioned this before but a similar thing happened to me
in a gunboat game. One of the erstwhile neutrals was neutral with me
rather than being disliked. I contacted Harley and they fixed the
problem within 24 hours.
I guess I am sort thick about some of these things but I have no
email from Harley stating I should check my relations in these
variant type games and furthermore I found out that GB game were
double price for setups after turn 0 was sent out. Personally I
don't the Harley does a very good job in making things outside of
"LeadA through LeadD" very clear but again I may just not
know where to look.
All that being said (I know my opinion matters little) I find hard to
believe any veteran team would not catch this until the orders
failed. Personally I would be too embarrassed to mention this in a
public forum. My initial reaction to this was "if these guys
don't pay enough attention to detail to catch something like
that, then I don't think they have much hope of winning"
Not trying to be insulting to you guys and I am certainly not one of
the ass-kissing Harley lovers that is always posting how much better
Harley is than former game companies. Take Automagic and Palantir
away and I don't see much difference in them and GSI.
Anyway rambled far too much, I hope you get things worked out. If you
don't and feel you have been wronged, then by all means keep your
money, I would.
From: "kingoftherill" <kingoftherill@y...>
>
> The moderator would have
> been obligated to correct the initial set up prior to the first
turn
> had you brought up the problem. After the turn is run it is too
late,
> to go back and essentially double the work of the moderator to
> completely run the turn again ...
But what if no turns had to be re-run (excepting the one in
question),
because the relations had no conceivable effect on any order
outcome? This
is tricky, as so many Character orders are effected by Relations..
Brad Brunet
If there is any change in result that had an effect on any other
nation's turn report then that turn report would have to be changed
as well. This makes the work snowball. Sooner or later each nation's
relations with the other nations would have to be changed. The time
to do this is before orders actually start being sent in. I have not
seen any explanation of how or why no one bothered to check the setup
of the game to verify it was correct, especially as they in their
request for nation allocation requested that Harad be changed from
what the normal distribution of nations normally is. Whenever there
is a change which has to be put in manually there is the possibility
of a mistake being made. I am in a grudge game right now and we made
a point of verifying which nations were on which side and that the
correct relationships were established on the turn zero pdf. It just
seems that the Aussie team dropped the ball themselves and now want
Harley to make it right, or they will take their ball and go home.
That seems to me to be extreme and that they should take some
responsibility for their lack of attention as well as Harley making
the mistake.
As part ofthe Aussie team, speaking personally, I by
no means say that ther ewas no fault of ours. I think
part of it is complacency (not an excuse, and
explanation). This is our seventh (?) WC game,
probably more than that in pure grudge. We never had
the problem before (kudos to ME then), so it caused
complacency. At least on my personal part, I will
say. I don't think anyone will deny that we didn't
catch it and for a veteran team that's sloppy, so
there is definately "fault" on both sides for those
who wish to say it is someone's "fault."
JB
PS I am NOT team captain or team speaker. I speak for
myself in all these things
--- In mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com, "Brad Brunet"
<bbrunec296@r...>
wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kingoftherill" <kingoftherill@y...>
> >
> > The moderator would have
> > been obligated to correct the initial set up
prior to the first
turn
> > had you brought up the problem. After the turn
is run it is too
late,
> > to go back and essentially double the work of
the moderator to
> > completely run the turn again ...
>
> But what if no turns had to be re-run (excepting
the one in
question),
> because the relations had no conceivable effect on
any order
outcome? This
> is tricky, as so many Character orders are
effected by Relations..
>
> Brad Brunet
If there is any change in result that had an effect
on any other
nation's turn report then that turn report would
have to be changed
as well. This makes the work snowball. Sooner or
later each nation's
relations with the other nations would have to be
changed. The time
to do this is before orders actually start being
sent in. I have not
seen any explanation of how or why no one bothered
to check the setup
of the game to verify it was correct, especially as
they in their
request for nation allocation requested that Harad
be changed from
what the normal distribution of nations normally is.
Whenever there
is a change which has to be put in manually there is
the possibility
of a mistake being made. I am in a grudge game right
now and we made
a point of verifying which nations were on which
side and that the
correct relationships were established on the turn
zero pdf. It just
seems that the Aussie team dropped the ball
themselves and now want
Harley to make it right, or they will take their
ball and go home.
That seems to me to be extreme and that they should
take some
responsibility for their lack of attention as well
as Harley making
the mistake.
when a company has a monopoly over a product not much
you can do
rather than refuse to give them your money.
I find they're usually quite responsive to "asking,"
when something is clearly their fault. This is a gray
area -- you yourself said it was up to the team to
call the error sooner.
(I know my opinion matters little)
Actually, it matters quite a lot. I revived this
thread to hear opinions from the community, especially
when...
I am certainly not one of
the ass-kissing Harley lovers that is always posting
how much better
Harley is than former game companies
... they aren't crass and insulting.
I don't take your opinion of Harley vs GSI (with which
I totally disagree) to be because you're brown-nosing
GSI. I just take it to be your view.
My view is that the service at GSI was freakish and at
ME Games it's exceptional. Feel free to disagree, but
keep your insults at home.
