Clint:
I was trying to make plain that my answer was not a final one written in stone. It was subject to change without any notice from me. Since you are moderating this List, and have to approve all submissions, you could have prevented its publication. Couldn't you? Or has there been a change I am not aware of?
So, tell us just how the stealth bonus works.
Ed Mills
>My belief is that stealth adds a random number between one and the maximum
>value to the agent rank. So, in your example, he isactually a 51 to 75
>agent. Now this is not from Mt. Sinai. Harley's obtaining of the Source
>Codes is liable to change this and other issues without notice.
This is plainly not the case. What evidence do you have to back this up
Ed? This is pretty close to slander actually and I'm not happy with such
comments. We'll chat to players before any changes are made.
Clint
_________________________________________________________________
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
Clint:
I was trying to make plain that my answer was not a final one written in
stone. It was subject to change without any notice from me. Since you
are
moderating this List, and have to approve all submissions, you could
have
prevented its publication. Couldn't you? Or has there been a change I
am
not aware of?
So, tell us just how the stealth bonus works.
Ed Mills
>My belief is that stealth adds a random number between one and the
maximum
>value to the agent rank. So, in your example, he isactually a 51 to
>75 agent. Now this is not from Mt. Sinai. Harley's obtaining of the
>Source Codes is liable to change this and other issues without
>notice.
This is plainly not the case. What evidence do you have to back this
up Ed? This is pretty close to slander actually and I'm not happy with
such comments. We'll chat to players before any changes are made.
Clint
_________________________________________________________________
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Ovatha Easterling [mailto:ovatha88@hotmail.com]
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 8 de julho de 2004 08:48
Para: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: RE: [mepbmlist] The weight of stealth
Clint:
I was trying to make plain that my answer was not a final one written in
stone. It was subject to change without any notice from me. Since you
are
moderating this List, and have to approve all submissions, you could
have
prevented its publication. Couldn't you? Or has there been a change I
am
not aware of?
So, tell us just how the stealth bonus works.
Ed Mills
My belief is that stealth adds a random number between one and the
maximum
value to the agent rank. So, in your example, he isactually a 51 to
75 agent. Now this is not from Mt. Sinai. Harley's obtaining of the
Source Codes is liable to change this and other issues without
notice.
This is plainly not the case. What evidence do you have to back this
up Ed? This is pretty close to slander actually and I'm not happy with
such comments. We'll chat to players before any changes are made.
Clint
_________________________________________________________________
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Ovatha Easterling [mailto:ovatha88@hotmail.com]
Enviada em: quinta-feira, 8 de julho de 2004 08:48
Para: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Assunto: RE: [mepbmlist] The weight of stealth
Clint:
I was trying to make plain that my answer was not a final one written
in
stone. It was subject to change without any notice from me. Since you
are moderating this List, and have to approve all submissions, you
could have
prevented its publication. Couldn't you? Or has there been a change I
am
not aware of?
So, tell us just how the stealth bonus works.
Ed Mills
My belief is that stealth adds a random number between one and the
maximum
value to the agent rank. So, in your example, he isactually a 51 to
75 agent. Now this is not from Mt. Sinai. Harley's obtaining of the
Source Codes is liable to change this and other issues without
notice.
This is plainly not the case. What evidence do you have to back this
up Ed? This is pretty close to slander actually and I'm not happy
with
such comments. We'll chat to players before any changes are made.
Clint
_________________________________________________________________
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
Your guideline actually increases the effects of stealth. Based on stealth
adding anywhere from1 to the amount of stealth to the agent's rank when
issuing orders, I calculated Effective Agent Rank as Agent + Stealth*0.5. I
respect your knowledge and experience enough to henceforth change my formula
to Agent + Stealth*0.667.
Sorry guys - should have been more clear. We've made no changes to stealth nor as a company have we expressed anything about the way stealth works - that's very much to be discovered in the course of play.
Clint GM
As a player my opinion is that I think that either 1) there's a roll (like with the Reveal PC there's clearly two rolls one to cast the spell and one to see if the spell actually reveals the PC) and you get from 0-X where X = Stealth rank as a bonus to your agent rank, or 2) that Stealth helps you bypass fortifications by minimising their impact (1 level for each 10 stealth) but these are only player opinions that I've worked out playing the game and should be taken only that way. I've seen some wacky results - where we've tried to steal artefacts or steal gold with high stealth characters (or even the occasional assassinate) and there is a wide range of results.
Clint player
(I generally try not to comment on such game mechanics as I am aware of the line between GM and player and that sometimes players could be confused by a statement by me and not sure whether or not it's a GM or player comment).
Clint GM
However, I don't like the implication or the stated fact that we would change the code without chatting to players. Everything I've done implies that I wouldn't do that nor do we have any plans to change the way stealth impacts on the game. If you guys feel that it should be changed then we an certainly start a discussion on that topic. Ed has claimed this several times or implies that we will do in the future without extensive consultation. I like the game as it is and think it's grand and think that there is no reason to change Stealth.
Hope that clarifies things and apologies for any confusion that my comments might have caused.
Clint GM
···
Clint:
I was trying to make plain that my answer was not a final one written in
stone. It was subject to change without any notice from me. Since you are
moderating this List, and have to approve all submissions, you could have
prevented its publication. Couldn't you? Or has there been a change I am
not aware of?
So, tell us just how the stealth bonus works.
Ed Mills
>From: ME Games Ltd <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>
>Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] The weight of stealth
>Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 02:01:43 +0100
>
> >My belief is that stealth adds a random number between one and the
>maximum
> >value to the agent rank. So, in your example, he isactually a 51 to 75
> >agent. Now this is not from Mt. Sinai. Harley's obtaining of the Source
> >Codes is liable to change this and other issues without notice.
>
>This is plainly not the case. What evidence do you have to back this up
>Ed? This is pretty close to slander actually and I'm not happy with such
>comments. We'll chat to players before any changes are made.
>
>Clint
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
I agree with this statement. I've been playing a
number of years and have never seen a significant
change without consulting the players. Qudo's on
that!
As far as changing stealth. I believe only one change
would be necessary, that would be, to give more
nations the chance of getting a stealth rating with
their characters.
However, I don't like the implication or the stated
fact that we would change the code without chatting
to players. Everything I've done implies that I
wouldn't do that nor do we have any plans to change
the way stealth impacts on the game. If you guys
feel that it should be changed then we an certainly
start a discussion on that topic. Ed has claimed
this several times or implies that we will do in the
future without extensive consultation. I like the
game as it is and think it's grand and think that
there is no reason to change Stealth.
I agree with this statement. I've been playing a
number of years and have never seen a significant
change without consulting the players. Qudo's on
that!
As far as changing stealth. I believe only one change
would be necessary, that would be, to give more
nations the chance of getting a stealth rating with
their characters.
JCC
RD: Why do that? Surely that would simply devalue stealth.
What bugs me is that when you play a nation which has stealth as a SNA, the
chances of you getting a stealth bonus on an agent is 4-1 against. Any
stealth bonus is much more likely to go to a com em or mage. In practice,
in a 20-turn game, and turning out a reasonable variety of characters, I
find you get one or possibly two agents with stealth, and the rest is wasted
on characters who don't need it.
OTOH agents are still too powerful, so leave things as they are
RD: Why do that? Surely that would simply devalue stealth.
What bugs me is that when you play a nation which has stealth as a SNA,
the
chances of you getting a stealth bonus on an agent is 4-1 against. Any
stealth bonus is much more likely to go to a com em or mage. In practice,
in a 20-turn game, and turning out a reasonable variety of characters, I
find you get one or possibly two agents with stealth, and the rest is
wasted
on characters who don't need it.
OTOH agents are still too powerful, so leave things as they are
Richard.
This at least proves you haven't left us totally! Now, explain how this
applies to game 33...
Bradwood for the Soon-To-Be Victorious Free Peoples
From: "richard devereux" <rd@pagan-47.fsnet.co.uk
>
> RD: Why do that? Surely that would simply devalue stealth.
>
> What bugs me is that when you play a nation which has stealth as a SNA,
the
> chances of you getting a stealth bonus on an agent is 4-1 against. Any
> stealth bonus is much more likely to go to a com em or mage. In
practice,
> in a 20-turn game, and turning out a reasonable variety of characters, I
> find you get one or possibly two agents with stealth, and the rest is
wasted
> on characters who don't need it.
>
> OTOH agents are still too powerful, so leave things as they are
>
> Richard.
This at least proves you haven't left us totally! Now, explain how this
applies to game 33...
Bradwood for the Soon-To-Be Victorious Free Peoples
RD: In your dreams.
Richard.
···
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Brunet" <bbrunec296@rogers.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] The weight of stealth
Well, you needn't simply _adopt_ this as a rule. I use very few things
as "rules" in this game (mostly, stuff from that book called
"Rulebook"). But, for a guideline, it's pretty solid. And it's
based on not just my own experience and knowledge, but that of some
players who make me look like wet behind the ears. (The type I like
to refer to as "antediluvian." Look it up, if you don't know it. That
was for everyone's sake - not necessarily yours, Brad.)
As for the Glory, well ... I'm never one to turn it down, but I don't
generally seek it. I was just having a bit of fun, really. But still
....
One final note: I, and others, have seen what I've heard most stongly
called "ungodly" things done by relatively unskilled agents with lots of
stealth (natural or otherwise). This suggests the _possibility_ of a
large stealth "bonus" - but is certainly not conclusive. Still, all in
all, a weight more towards 2/3's than 1/2 is more consistent with my own
experience, and that of others. So, that's the guideline I use. I've
seen some attempts to "analyze" this issue - not enough "fully
developed" data points (i.e., where all possible conditions were known)
to give any answer. If that changes, I may let you know ... (Or, I may
keep it to myself, so I have an advantage ... ).
ps Geez. A guy goes out of his way to share a (hard-won) usable
guideline, and gets no credit. Good thing I don't play MEPBM for the
"glory."
Glory to Ben! Glory to Ben!
Your guideline actually increases the effects of stealth. Based on stealth
adding anywhere from1 to the amount of stealth to the agent's rank when
issuing orders, I calculated Effective Agent Rank as Agent + Stealth*0.5. I
respect your knowledge and experience enough to henceforth change my formula
to Agent + Stealth*0.667.
--- ME Games Ltd <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote:
> However, I don't like the implication or the stated
> fact that we would change the code without chatting
> to players. Everything I've done implies that I
> wouldn't do that nor do we have any plans to change
> the way stealth impacts on the game. If you guys
> feel that it should be changed then we an certainly
> start a discussion on that topic. Ed has claimed
> this several times or implies that we will do in the
> future without extensive consultation. I like the
> game as it is and think it's grand and think that
> there is no reason to change Stealth.
I agree with this statement. I've been playing a
number of years and have never seen a significant
change without consulting the players. Qudo's on
that!
As far as changing stealth. I believe only one change
would be necessary, that would be, to give more
nations the chance of getting a stealth rating with
their characters.
