This topic needs a title

Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:43:37 -0000
From: arctellion <tomas@hunkymonkey.co.uk>
Reply-To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [mepbmlist] Autotragic

Hi all,

As a user who runs Linux, and therefore has great difficulty with
windows pased applications, I have broken down the Automagic output
so that people like myself can benefit from the price cut and still
get my orders in as though I had used automagic!

So, just a quick note to all those who want to benefit from the price
reduction associated with automagic, but don't want to use the
software!

You will need to write your orders in a text editor as using the
following format...<snip>

        Not only is the Automagic unfair for those who don't use
Microsoft products, we're now being asked to pay extra for having
someone input the orders--something that has always been included in
the price. I do feel sorry for those that still use mail as a method
for inputting orders.
        I feel even more sorry for those of us who are now being asked
to pay more for the same service or do more work with a somewhat
excessive program (Mike, the program looks great so don't take this as
a criticism of the spreadsheets per se)--the point is that some of us
use very plain text editors for our orders and are now required to pay
more for orders; pay more for an unwanted and over-priced Microsoft
program; or, even spend more time learning yet another set of
software. I personally have given more than enough money directly or
indirectly to Bill Gates.
        Finally, I feel the sorriest for those who input the orders.
Their salaries, although likely at legal minimums but with the great
benefit of playing MEPBM, will be now used to increase the 'bottom
line' for Harlequin - profit before people. And, to top it off, those
same people who get the wonderful benefit of playing for free will now
have to use the same program to input their orders that will make them
unemployed. I guess irony is best served on the battlefields of Middle
Earth.
        On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now an
illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian definition
for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have taken
action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
without much enforcement.
        I would suggest raising the price back to the rate that GSI
and Deft had for US players across the board for all types of orders.
This way Harlequin can honestly have a reasonable profit (we don't
want you going out of business), those who like Automagic can use it,
and those who don't can still use the time-honoured and old-fashioned
labour intensive methods.

Good thing for Harlequin that the Luddites are a thing of the past,

George P. Mason

···

______________________________________________________________________

gmason@bgnet.bgsu.edu || gmason@server.uwindsor.ca

>

Ph: 419.372.2415 || Ph: 519.253.4232 ext. 2199

>

Fax: 419.372.8306 || Fax: 519.971.3621

>

219 Williams Hall || 163 Chrysler Hall South

>

Department of Sociology || Department of Sociology and Anth.

Bowling Green State University || University of Windsor

>

Bowling Green, Ohio, USA, 43403 || Windsor, Ontario, Canada, N9B 3P4

__________<<<<<http://www.bgsu.edu/dept/soc/prof/mason>>>>>__________

_|

pay more for an unwanted and over-priced Microsoft
program; or, even spend more time learning yet another set of
software. I personally have given more than enough money directly or
indirectly to Bill Gates.

Ar you traying to say that you can acturly Bye Ms programs

        Finally, I feel the sorriest for those who input the orders.
Their salaries, although likely at legal minimums but with the great
benefit of playing MEPBM, will be now used to increase the 'bottom
line' for Harlequin - profit before people.

*** Sorry I don't think this is at all accurate. We're just introducing a profit sharing option with our staff (AutoInputting will allow us to do that to a higher level as we free up some funds for development and marketing, game design and other projects). ALL our staff are happy with the situation and want us to implement Auto-inputting. We earn a very small quantity of money for the service and job we do (part of the reason many of the other companies have felt PBM to unprofitable). I checked out the approximate market value for people with similar skills (we have over 7 degrees in the office for example) and level of commitment and we are on anything from UNDER £5k per employee to £10k for a person doing a similar (if there are similar ones) job in the market... :slight_smile: We're a very fair equal opportunities employer and very proud of the business we have set up here. :slight_smile: Everyone who works for us does so willingly and enjoys it.

I am working on a list of projects that I would like to see done in the near future and then, sucker for punishment that I am, will bring it up for player review. :slight_smile:

And, to top it off, those
same people who get the wonderful benefit of playing for free will now
have to use the same program to input their orders that will make them
unemployed. I guess irony is best served on the battlefields of Middle
Earth.

*** Who is being made unemployed?! Please don't start these rumours. No-one is being made unemployed unless they specifically want to leave the business. We're looking to expand our range of services not reduce them and automating lots of the labourious options of game running will free that up. For example our Accounts software system now means that we don't sit in front of a computer pressing a button every 4 seconds... :slight_smile: We had a bit of a party when that happened I can tell you. (The symbolic sledge hammer was duly used).

        On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now an
illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian definition
for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have taken
action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
without much enforcement.

*** Sorry I don't understand "reverse option billing"

        I would suggest raising the price back to the rate that GSI
and Deft had for US players across the board for all types of orders.
This way Harlequin can honestly have a reasonable profit (we don't
want you going out of business), those who like Automagic can use it,
and those who don't can still use the time-honoured and old-fashioned
labour intensive methods.

*** Thoughts on this?

Clint

I am quite comfortable with how you propose to do the new pricing structure.
There was an earlier e-mail that I completely agreed with on price increases
(no one likes a price increase, but no one minds a raise...)

It seems quite understandable to me that you would have different price
structures for different amounts of effort required on your part.

- It costs least for your company to process auto-input orders.
- It costs somewhat more to process e-mail orders (labor associated with
manual inputting of orders, additional labor associated with errors
associated with this process (either on the player's or the company's part).
- It costs even more to process postal orders (postage, paper, ink, even
more labor, etc.)

I have difficulty understanding how some people can not seem to grasp this
concept.

I think that your prices are fair. I think your proposed price structure is
fair.

Thanks,
John

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Middle Earth PBM Games [mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 3:24 PM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] (unknown)

        Finally, I feel the sorriest for those who input the orders.
Their salaries, although likely at legal minimums but with the great
benefit of playing MEPBM, will be now used to increase the 'bottom
line' for Harlequin - profit before people.

*** Sorry I don't think this is at all accurate. We're just introducing a
profit sharing option with our staff (AutoInputting will allow us to do
that to a higher level as we free up some funds for development and
marketing, game design and other projects). ALL our staff are happy with
the situation and want us to implement Auto-inputting. We earn a very
small quantity of money for the service and job we do (part of the reason
many of the other companies have felt PBM to unprofitable). I checked out
the approximate market value for people with similar skills (we have over 7
degrees in the office for example) and level of commitment and we are on
anything from UNDER �5k per employee to �10k for a person doing a similar
(if there are similar ones) job in the market... :slight_smile: We're a very fair
equal opportunities employer and very proud of the business we have set up
here. :slight_smile: Everyone who works for us does so willingly and enjoys it.

I am working on a list of projects that I would like to see done in the
near future and then, sucker for punishment that I am, will bring it up for
player review. :slight_smile:

And, to top it off, those
same people who get the wonderful benefit of playing for free will now
have to use the same program to input their orders that will make them
unemployed. I guess irony is best served on the battlefields of Middle
Earth.

*** Who is being made unemployed?! Please don't start these
rumours. No-one is being made unemployed unless they specifically want to
leave the business. We're looking to expand our range of services not
reduce them and automating lots of the labourious options of game running
will free that up. For example our Accounts software system now means that
we don't sit in front of a computer pressing a button every 4 seconds...
:slight_smile: We had a bit of a party when that happened I can tell you. (The
symbolic sledge hammer was duly used).

        On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now an
illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian definition
for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have taken
action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
without much enforcement.

*** Sorry I don't understand "reverse option billing"

        I would suggest raising the price back to the rate that GSI
and Deft had for US players across the board for all types of orders.
This way Harlequin can honestly have a reasonable profit (we don't
want you going out of business), those who like Automagic can use it,
and those who don't can still use the time-honoured and old-fashioned
labour intensive methods.

*** Thoughts on this?

Clint

Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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Instead of offering a product/service, where the consumer
has to select "YES", companys, (mostly monopolies...) automatically
"subscribe" the consumer to this new product/service. The onus
is now on the consumer to say "No" and go out trying to get a refund.
Cable television and telephone companies have done this type of
thing. Thugs all.

The impression that we are now being charged more for doing the
same thing we've always done, but can, at our own effort and
possibly expense, revert to the original charges, is what inspired
that comparison.

Brad the Canuck

···

--- Middle Earth PBM Games <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote:

> On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now an
>illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
>Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian
definition
>for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have taken
>action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
>without much enforcement.

*** Sorry I don't understand "reverse option billing"

______________________________________________________________________
Music, Movies, Sports, Games! http://entertainment.yahoo.ca

        Finally, I feel the sorriest for those who input the orders.

  >Their salaries, although likely at legal minimums but with the great
  >benefit of playing MEPBM, will be now used to increase the 'bottom
  >line' for Harlequin - profit before people.

  *** Sorry I don't think this is at all accurate. We're just introducing a
  profit sharing option with our staff (AutoInputting will allow us to do
  that to a higher level as we free up some funds for development and
  marketing, game design and other projects). ALL our staff are happy with
  the situation and want us to implement Auto-inputting. We earn a very
  small quantity of money for the service and job we do (part of the reason
  many of the other companies have felt PBM to unprofitable). I checked out
  the approximate market value for people with similar skills (we have over 7
  degrees in the office for example) and level of commitment and we are on
  anything from UNDER £5k per employee to £10k for a person doing a similar
  (if there are similar ones) job in the market... :slight_smile: We're a very fair
  equal opportunities employer and very proud of the business we have set up
  here. :slight_smile: Everyone who works for us does so willingly and enjoys it.

  I am working on a list of projects that I would like to see done in the
  near future and then, sucker for punishment that I am, will bring it up for
  player review. :slight_smile:

  >And, to top it off, those
  >same people who get the wonderful benefit of playing for free will now
  >have to use the same program to input their orders that will make them
  >unemployed. I guess irony is best served on the battlefields of Middle
  >Earth.

  *** Who is being made unemployed?! Please don't start these
  rumours. No-one is being made unemployed unless they specifically want to
  leave the business. We're looking to expand our range of services not
  reduce them and automating lots of the labourious options of game running
  will free that up. For example our Accounts software system now means that
  we don't sit in front of a computer pressing a button every 4 seconds...
  :-) We had a bit of a party when that happened I can tell you. (The
  symbolic sledge hammer was duly used).

  > On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now an
  >illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
  >Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian definition
  >for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have taken
  >action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
  >without much enforcement.

  *** Sorry I don't understand "reverse option billing"

  > I would suggest raising the price back to the rate that GSI
  >and Deft had for US players across the board for all types of orders.
  > This way Harlequin can honestly have a reasonable profit (we don't
  >want you going out of business), those who like Automagic can use it,
  >and those who don't can still use the time-honoured and old-fashioned
  >labour intensive methods.

  *** Thoughts on this?

  Clint

  RD: Yeah, I've got a few thoughts. Firstly, you've been far more polite to this libellous and cowardly anonymous person than he deserves.
  So you're putting prices up to £4.50 and people howl about what a big percentage rise it is. So it is a big percentage, but in REAL terms it's 60p a fortnight - wow, that's really gonna break the bank isn't it?

  Where else can you get a fortnight's entertainment for £4.50? If you go down the pub £4.50 might just about buy you a couple of beers and a packet of crisps - that'll last you perhaps an hour if the conversation is good. If you go to the cinema you get two hours' entertainment, but you've not only got the price of your ticket, you probably want refreshments as well, you've got the cost of travelling and parking if you go by car. You want a takeaway? You just might be able to afford a main course from a cheap restaurant, and you'll consume it in less than half an hour.

  Listen up you whingers: how many of you are working for less than 10k a year? I'll bet your last pay rise was a bit more than 30p a week, too! So don't grudge Clint and his team their modest rise. These guys and gals do the job for love, certainly not for the money. They are efficient and polite even when customers slag them off, and they STILL get in touch with you when they spot an order foul-up to give you the undeserved chance to put it right! On top of that they constantly strive to be more efficient and improve standards which are already high.

  Clint and all your team, if there are any moaners out there who think the service you deliver isn't worth £4.50 a fortnight, you're well rid of 'em. DLTBGYD! Personally I'm well pleased with your service, I think you all do an excellent job, and long may you continue enjoying doing it and bringing enjoyment to me and those like me. Rock on!

  Richard.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 11:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] (unknown)

Wow, I can't beleive the amount of moaning that has gone on about
this linux and 60p thing.

Just think, the amount you save by using a totally free operating
system compared to at least the £80 pounds the latest WinXP cd-rom
would cost you, It more than pays the extra in turns, that is until
MEOW works 100% for you non excel/linux users. Shall I indeed email
Clint and co. complaining my WAP mobile phone wont run automagic, and
demand he come up with a soulution right away ?

I drive a Diesel car, its my choice and I am reasonably happy with
it. If the british goverment raise the price of diesel again, but
fail to raise the price of Unleaded as its kinder to the enviroment,
I aint gonna refuse to use my diesel car, I am not going to rush out
and buy an unleaded car, I am merely going to take it on the chin and
think about an unleaded car next time I am looking to buy a car.

I suggest some of these Linux owners, who it seems are complaining a
bit prematurely (as MEOW isn't even out yet) weigh up the pro's and
cons next time they choose their computer OS.

Dave Griffiths

As it is such an insignificant amount to you Richard, perhaps you
would pay for my increase to stop me whingeing?

As for your other e-mail I think there is a fine line between fun and
parading what appear to be your prejudices. I'd go to see Bernard
Manning rather than coming to this list if I was into that kind of
fun.

Piously,
Chris Courtiour

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "richarddevereux" <rd@p...> wrote:

  From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  To: mepbmlist@y...
  Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 11:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] (unknown)

  > Finally, I feel the sorriest for those who input the

orders.

  >Their salaries, although likely at legal minimums but with the

great

  >benefit of playing MEPBM, will be now used to increase

the 'bottom

  >line' for Harlequin - profit before people.

  *** Sorry I don't think this is at all accurate. We're just

introducing a

  profit sharing option with our staff (AutoInputting will allow us

to do

  that to a higher level as we free up some funds for development

and

  marketing, game design and other projects). ALL our staff are

happy with

  the situation and want us to implement Auto-inputting. We earn a

very

  small quantity of money for the service and job we do (part of

the reason

  many of the other companies have felt PBM to unprofitable). I

checked out

  the approximate market value for people with similar skills (we

have over 7

  degrees in the office for example) and level of commitment and we

are on

  anything from UNDER £5k per employee to £10k for a person doing a

similar

  (if there are similar ones) job in the market... :slight_smile: We're a

very fair

  equal opportunities employer and very proud of the business we

have set up

  here. :slight_smile: Everyone who works for us does so willingly and enjoys

it.

  I am working on a list of projects that I would like to see done

in the

  near future and then, sucker for punishment that I am, will bring

it up for

  player review. :slight_smile:

  >And, to top it off, those
  >same people who get the wonderful benefit of playing for free

will now

  >have to use the same program to input their orders that will

make them

  >unemployed. I guess irony is best served on the battlefields of

Middle

  >Earth.

  *** Who is being made unemployed?! Please don't start these
  rumours. No-one is being made unemployed unless they

specifically want to

  leave the business. We're looking to expand our range of services

not

  reduce them and automating lots of the labourious options of game

running

  will free that up. For example our Accounts software system now

means that

  we don't sit in front of a computer pressing a button every 4

seconds...

  :-) We had a bit of a party when that happened I can tell you.

(The

  symbolic sledge hammer was duly used).

  > On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now

an

  >illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
  >Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian

definition

  >for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have

taken

  >action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
  >without much enforcement.

  *** Sorry I don't understand "reverse option billing"

  > I would suggest raising the price back to the rate that

GSI

  >and Deft had for US players across the board for all types of

orders.

  > This way Harlequin can honestly have a reasonable profit (we

don't

  >want you going out of business), those who like Automagic can

use it,

  >and those who don't can still use the time-honoured and old-

fashioned

  >labour intensive methods.

  *** Thoughts on this?

  Clint

  RD: Yeah, I've got a few thoughts. Firstly, you've been far more

polite to this libellous and cowardly anonymous person than he
deserves.

  So you're putting prices up to £4.50 and people howl about what a

big percentage rise it is. So it is a big percentage, but in REAL
terms it's 60p a fortnight - wow, that's really gonna break the bank
isn't it?

  Where else can you get a fortnight's entertainment for £4.50? If

you go down the pub £4.50 might just about buy you a couple of beers
and a packet of crisps - that'll last you perhaps an hour if the
conversation is good. If you go to the cinema you get two hours'
entertainment, but you've not only got the price of your ticket, you
probably want refreshments as well, you've got the cost of travelling
and parking if you go by car. You want a takeaway? You just might
be able to afford a main course from a cheap restaurant, and you'll
consume it in less than half an hour.

  Listen up you whingers: how many of you are working for less than

10k a year? I'll bet your last pay rise was a bit more than 30p a
week, too! So don't grudge Clint and his team their modest rise.
These guys and gals do the job for love, certainly not for the
money. They are efficient and polite even when customers slag them
off, and they STILL get in touch with you when they spot an order
foul-up to give you the undeserved chance to put it right! On top of
that they constantly strive to be more efficient and improve
standards which are already high.

  Clint and all your team, if there are any moaners out there who

think the service you deliver isn't worth £4.50 a fortnight, you're
well rid of 'em. DLTBGYD! Personally I'm well pleased with your
service, I think you all do an excellent job, and long may you
continue enjoying doing it and bringing enjoyment to me and those
like me. Rock on!

  Richard.

        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT
             
  Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
  To Unsubscribe: http://www.yahoogroups.com
  Website: http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

···

  ----- Original Message -----

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As it is such an insignificant amount to you Richard, perhaps you
  would pay for my increase to stop me whingeing?

  As for your other e-mail I think there is a fine line between fun and
  parading what appear to be your prejudices. I'd go to see Bernard
  Manning rather than coming to this list if I was into that kind of
  fun.

  Piously,
  Chris Courtiour
  RD: my argument was that if you earn more than 10k a year then 30p a week is an insignificant amount full stop.
  It's very sad if I (or anybody) can't poke fun at political correctness without being accused of prejudice. Lighten up,

  Richard.

  --- In mepbmlist@y..., "richarddevereux" <rd@p...> wrote:
  >
  > From: Middle Earth PBM Games
  > To: mepbmlist@y...
  > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 11:23 PM
  > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] (unknown)
  >
  >
  >
  > > Finally, I feel the sorriest for those who input the
  orders.
  > >Their salaries, although likely at legal minimums but with the
  great
  > >benefit of playing MEPBM, will be now used to increase
  the 'bottom
  > >line' for Harlequin - profit before people.
  >
  > *** Sorry I don't think this is at all accurate. We're just
  introducing a
  > profit sharing option with our staff (AutoInputting will allow us
  to do
  > that to a higher level as we free up some funds for development
  and
  > marketing, game design and other projects). ALL our staff are
  happy with
  > the situation and want us to implement Auto-inputting. We earn a
  very
  > small quantity of money for the service and job we do (part of
  the reason
  > many of the other companies have felt PBM to unprofitable). I
  checked out
  > the approximate market value for people with similar skills (we
  have over 7
  > degrees in the office for example) and level of commitment and we
  are on
  > anything from UNDER £5k per employee to £10k for a person doing a
  similar
  > (if there are similar ones) job in the market... :slight_smile: We're a
  very fair
  > equal opportunities employer and very proud of the business we
  have set up
  > here. :slight_smile: Everyone who works for us does so willingly and enjoys
  it.
  >
  > I am working on a list of projects that I would like to see done
  in the
  > near future and then, sucker for punishment that I am, will bring
  it up for
  > player review. :slight_smile:
  >
  > >And, to top it off, those
  > >same people who get the wonderful benefit of playing for free
  will now
  > >have to use the same program to input their orders that will
  make them
  > >unemployed. I guess irony is best served on the battlefields of
  Middle
  > >Earth.
  >
  > *** Who is being made unemployed?! Please don't start these
  > rumours. No-one is being made unemployed unless they
  specifically want to
  > leave the business. We're looking to expand our range of services
  not
  > reduce them and automating lots of the labourious options of game
  running
  > will free that up. For example our Accounts software system now
  means that
  > we don't sit in front of a computer pressing a button every 4
  seconds...
  > :slight_smile: We had a bit of a party when that happened I can tell you.
  (The
  > symbolic sledge hammer was duly used).
  >
  > > On a side note, in Canada reverse-option billing is now
  an
  > >illegal practice for companies to engage--and the introduction of
  > >Automagic in the way Harlequin is doing meets the Canadian
  definition
  > >for an illegal business practice. In the US, many states have
  taken
  > >action to limit like changes although the practice still exists
  > >without much enforcement.
  >
  > *** Sorry I don't understand "reverse option billing"
  >
  > > I would suggest raising the price back to the rate that
  GSI
  > >and Deft had for US players across the board for all types of
  orders.
  > > This way Harlequin can honestly have a reasonable profit (we
  don't
  > >want you going out of business), those who like Automagic can
  use it,
  > >and those who don't can still use the time-honoured and old-
  fashioned
  > >labour intensive methods.
  >
  > *** Thoughts on this?
  >
  >
  > Clint
  >
  > RD: Yeah, I've got a few thoughts. Firstly, you've been far more
  polite to this libellous and cowardly anonymous person than he
  deserves.
  > So you're putting prices up to £4.50 and people howl about what a
  big percentage rise it is. So it is a big percentage, but in REAL
  terms it's 60p a fortnight - wow, that's really gonna break the bank
  isn't it?
  >
  > Where else can you get a fortnight's entertainment for £4.50? If
  you go down the pub £4.50 might just about buy you a couple of beers
  and a packet of crisps - that'll last you perhaps an hour if the
  conversation is good. If you go to the cinema you get two hours'
  entertainment, but you've not only got the price of your ticket, you
  probably want refreshments as well, you've got the cost of travelling
  and parking if you go by car. You want a takeaway? You just might
  be able to afford a main course from a cheap restaurant, and you'll
  consume it in less than half an hour.
  >
  > Listen up you whingers: how many of you are working for less than
  10k a year? I'll bet your last pay rise was a bit more than 30p a
  week, too! So don't grudge Clint and his team their modest rise.
  These guys and gals do the job for love, certainly not for the
  money. They are efficient and polite even when customers slag them
  off, and they STILL get in touch with you when they spot an order
  foul-up to give you the undeserved chance to put it right! On top of
  that they constantly strive to be more efficient and improve
  standards which are already high.
  >
  > Clint and all your team, if there are any moaners out there who
  think the service you deliver isn't worth £4.50 a fortnight, you're
  well rid of 'em. DLTBGYD! Personally I'm well pleased with your
  service, I think you all do an excellent job, and long may you
  continue enjoying doing it and bringing enjoyment to me and those
  like me. Rock on!
  >
  > Richard.
  >
  >
  >
  >
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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: arnheim2001
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:15 AM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: (unknown)

  > ----- Original Message -----