Thoughts On Improvements

This is a great game (especially the 1650 version). I've been
playing it for 10 years and keep coming back for more. Over that
time myself and those I've played with have talked about improvements
that would make the game even better. Some GSI actually responded to
(like making it tougher for agents to kill army commanders and adding
the message about the militia stopping an agent so you can get an
agent name and improving Palintir information, just to name a few),
but others, especially anything that would require a change in the
rule book, have been studiously ignored. After beating your head
against the wall for so long, you finally learn to shutup and just
enjoy what you've got (which I still do). Clint and company seem a
lot more open to input so after not posting or sending anything along
these lines for around five years, here are some thoughts (I'm sure
some of which many players disagree with, but some do agree with).

My apoligies if any of these are duplicates in this newgroup.

Improvements that I would like to see.

1) New order TakeArt: Take Artifact, so a character can retrieve an
artifact from a "friendly" character in the hex instead of the
character with the artifact having to do the "TrArt". Or better yet,
modify the PkUpArt order so that a character can pick them up off the
ground and/or from other "friendly" characters in the hex. Every
game, Urzahil, Murazor, Elrond, and the rest have to divest
themselves of artifacts, wasting crutial early orders, and it would
also give more flexibility down the line.

2) Move the "RsrchSp" order before the "StlGold" order. I'm fine
with not being able to hire armies or name characters if the other
side is stealing all your gold. But I believe that you should be
able to research spells. Mages are already lame enough.

3) Improve special service turns (which you are being charged for
after all) to use orders that improve skill if the character is with
an army (commander), or in a friendly pop-center (emissary, agent,
mage). The only danger I can see is if an agent guards and is killed
because of it. Or just do it for mages and emissaries, whose special
service orders are about a worthless as can be.

4) Make it less likely that secondary characters in an army get
captured. Right now, mages with armies get captured more often than
not after a losing battle. It is currently insanity to put a mage in
an army unless you know that army is not going to lose (then, why
would you need him/her in the army anyway?) Secondary characters
also get wounded a lot more often. Plus they all die when you get
overrun. I think it should just be the commander. Of course, as the
experienced player knows, mages in armies never really pay off
because the math is just not there (they can have a big effect on
naval battles however).

5) Give 1 mage skill point for sucessfully learning a spell, or
better yet, the same as a Prentice Magery. Increasing mage skill is
very painful unlike the other three classes.

6) Give 1 major skill point for issuing a challenge against an enemy
and being refused.

7) Relations changes (UpStNat,DnStNat) should never fail if you are
using your Nazgul (ok, I'll admit, this is a whine, but jeez, the
populace not supporting Murazor? right...)

Troops types have been hashed out endlessly, but here is my two cents:

There is no reason to hire or recruit anything other than HC and HI
under the current rules (argue about "camp raiding" armies if you
want, but you'll never convince me). Sure, conjuring hordes makes
sense if you want to try to overrun somebody. So here's my thoughts
on each troop type. These are simple things that can be done that
would not unbalance the current game and make some sense for all you
realists out there (imho):

HC: Leave as is.
LC: Have them consume only one food instead of two.
HI: Leave as is.
LI: Allow them to move as cavalry.
AR: Give a defence bonus to the army (+1/archer) just like casting a
    defensive spell. Give a +2/archer if on a "frienly" fortified
    pop center.
MA: Make them so they require and consume no food (ie, can move full
    alotment without food and don't depleat the rest of the army's
    food)

Things that would make the endgame more enjoyable:

1) Keep kill total for all nations (not just those with it as a
victory condition). We all know that sometimes the nation listed
with the most didn't really have the most.

2) Keep a running total of how many characters you have lost and show
that on the end-sheet.

3) Keep statistics on double agents recruited by emissaries.

4) Show greater depth on the endsheet (ie, top three
agents,commanders,etc.)

5) In general keep more statistics (individual kills, double agents
recruited)

6) Show the individual statistics in the character section on turn
sheets. (Whose bad? Din's bad).

7) I'd weigh in on the VCs, but that is another article entirely.

After putting $300 into a nice long game you kind of want to see a
little more depth at the end. It would add enjoyment to the debrief
and post-game analysis with teammates.

Thanks for listening/reading,

Steve Latham
aka OzzyModo
aka Ozz

Great ideas not all that I would necessarily implement but the thought
behind them I do agree all heartedly with. The major problem is that GSI
won't do it. With our present income we are unable to push this either I am
afraid.

Clint

···

This is a great game (especially the 1650 version). I've been
playing it for 10 years and keep coming back for more. Over that
time myself and those I've played with have talked about improvements
that would make the game even better. Some GSI actually responded to
(like making it tougher for agents to kill army commanders and adding
the message about the militia stopping an agent so you can get an
agent name and improving Palintir information, just to name a few),
but others, especially anything that would require a change in the
rule book, have been studiously ignored. After beating your head
against the wall for so long, you finally learn to shutup and just
enjoy what you've got (which I still do). Clint and company seem a
lot more open to input so after not posting or sending anything along
these lines for around five years, here are some thoughts (I'm sure
some of which many players disagree with, but some do agree with).

My apoligies if any of these are duplicates in this newgroup.

Improvements that I would like to see.

1) New order TakeArt: Take Artifact, so a character can retrieve an
artifact from a "friendly" character in the hex instead of the
character with the artifact having to do the "TrArt". Or better yet,
modify the PkUpArt order so that a character can pick them up off the
ground and/or from other "friendly" characters in the hex. Every
game, Urzahil, Murazor, Elrond, and the rest have to divest
themselves of artifacts, wasting crutial early orders, and it would
also give more flexibility down the line.

2) Move the "RsrchSp" order before the "StlGold" order. I'm fine
with not being able to hire armies or name characters if the other
side is stealing all your gold. But I believe that you should be
able to research spells. Mages are already lame enough.

3) Improve special service turns (which you are being charged for
after all) to use orders that improve skill if the character is with
an army (commander), or in a friendly pop-center (emissary, agent,
mage). The only danger I can see is if an agent guards and is killed
because of it. Or just do it for mages and emissaries, whose special
service orders are about a worthless as can be.

4) Make it less likely that secondary characters in an army get
captured. Right now, mages with armies get captured more often than
not after a losing battle. It is currently insanity to put a mage in
an army unless you know that army is not going to lose (then, why
would you need him/her in the army anyway?) Secondary characters
also get wounded a lot more often. Plus they all die when you get
overrun. I think it should just be the commander. Of course, as the
experienced player knows, mages in armies never really pay off
because the math is just not there (they can have a big effect on
naval battles however).

5) Give 1 mage skill point for sucessfully learning a spell, or
better yet, the same as a Prentice Magery. Increasing mage skill is
very painful unlike the other three classes.

6) Give 1 major skill point for issuing a challenge against an enemy
and being refused.

7) Relations changes (UpStNat,DnStNat) should never fail if you are
using your Nazgul (ok, I'll admit, this is a whine, but jeez, the
populace not supporting Murazor? right...)

Troops types have been hashed out endlessly, but here is my two cents:

There is no reason to hire or recruit anything other than HC and HI
under the current rules (argue about "camp raiding" armies if you
want, but you'll never convince me). Sure, conjuring hordes makes
sense if you want to try to overrun somebody. So here's my thoughts
on each troop type. These are simple things that can be done that
would not unbalance the current game and make some sense for all you
realists out there (imho):

HC: Leave as is.
LC: Have them consume only one food instead of two.
HI: Leave as is.
LI: Allow them to move as cavalry.
AR: Give a defence bonus to the army (+1/archer) just like casting a
    defensive spell. Give a +2/archer if on a "frienly" fortified
    pop center.
MA: Make them so they require and consume no food (ie, can move full
    alotment without food and don't depleat the rest of the army's
    food)

Things that would make the endgame more enjoyable:

1) Keep kill total for all nations (not just those with it as a
victory condition). We all know that sometimes the nation listed
with the most didn't really have the most.

2) Keep a running total of how many characters you have lost and show
that on the end-sheet.

3) Keep statistics on double agents recruited by emissaries.

4) Show greater depth on the endsheet (ie, top three
agents,commanders,etc.)

5) In general keep more statistics (individual kills, double agents
recruited)

6) Show the individual statistics in the character section on turn
sheets. (Whose bad? Din's bad).

7) I'd weigh in on the VCs, but that is another article entirely.

After putting $300 into a nice long game you kind of want to see a
little more depth at the end. It would add enjoyment to the debrief
and post-game analysis with teammates.

Thanks for listening/reading,

Steve Latham
aka OzzyModo
aka Ozz

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GSI is a frustrating outfit. Their mission with this game has
never been to make it the best game it can be, but to milk the cow
once they got it out there. The bummer of it is, being a software
professional, I know that it wouldn't take that much to tweak the game
as suggested by me and by others for some of the enhancements. Yes,
adding a lot more statistics, or changing the VP scheme to be more
relevent to how a player performed are programming challenges, but
keeping track of kills for all nations is simple (since it is already
being done for some nations). That's just to name one.

To their credit they did address the imbalance of agents, which used
to be way more powerful than they are now (though they are still very
powerful) and dramitacally lowered the affect of agent artifacts
(anybody who believes that 40 agent with the Ring of Wind is as
powerful as a straight 80 would be slightly incorrect, although
about 6 years ago, they would have). I believe their mantra is to do
nothing that might cause them to (heaven forbid) update/change the
manual.

Like I said, it's still a great game. What keeps it great is not the
game or the rules themselves, but the people you play with and
against (even the underhanded ones).

Ozz

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@M...> wrote:

Great ideas not all that I would necessarily implement but the

thought

behind them I do agree all heartedly with. The major problem is

that GSI

won't do it. With our present income we are unable to push this

either I am

···

afraid.

Clint