well i have just watched it with my 2 sons (who havent read the books) and
we all thought it was great. which is the main thing.
the changes are not really a problem except aragorn going over the cliff
which i couldnt see the point of, but overall a very good film.
and my main point Gollum was excellent as good maybe even better than the
book (sacrilige i know)give him the oscar now
paul
well i have just watched it with my 2 sons (who havent read the books) and
we all thought it was great. which is the main thing.
the changes are not really a problem except aragorn going over the cliff
which i couldnt see the point of, but overall a very good film.
and my main point Gollum was excellent as good maybe even better than the
book (sacrilige i know)give him the oscar now
paul
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----- Original Message -----
From: paul
To: Mepbmlist@Yahoogroups. Com
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] two towers (spoiler)
well i have just watched it with my 2 sons (who havent read the books) and
we all thought it was great. which is the main thing.
the changes are not really a problem except aragorn going over the cliff
which i couldnt see the point of, but overall a very good film.
and my main point Gollum was excellent as good maybe even better than the
book (sacrilige i know)give him the oscar now
paul
RD: Agree the film was great. The best film of all time!
But (these are only nit-picks): Gollum should be uglier. Yes I know he wouldn't win a beauty contest, but compare him with Bakshi's Gollum, and I think Bakshi wins on appearance.
OTOH Jackson's Gollum captures the character's schizophrenia perfectly.
But BIG SPOILER COMING UP - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
YOU SURE YOU WANT TO SEE THIS? OK, don't say I didn't warn you...
At some point in "Return of the King" Gollum changes back into Smeagol, in other words, repents his sins and becomes a good guy. I could speculate but I won't. It opens a whole new can of worms...
Richard
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message -----
From: paul
To: Mepbmlist@Yahoogroups. Com
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] two towers (spoiler)
and my main point Gollum was excellent as good maybe even better
than the
book (sacrilige i know)give him the oscar now
paulRD: Agree the film was great. The best film of all time!
But (these are only nit-picks): Gollum should be uglier. Yes I
know he wouldn't win a beauty contest, but compare him with Bakshi's
Gollum, and I think Bakshi wins on appearance.
I am glad that Jackson's Gollum is as he is. One of the crucial
points of the book is that Gollum is pitiable. He is not a monster;
he is a horribly distorted hobbit (which is, of course, to say
human). I actually think Jackson outdid Tolkien on this point,
because I could never quite believe Frodo saying "I do pity him,"
given the portrayal of Smeagol/Gollum in the book. I did feel pity
for Jackson's Gollum.
I do have some other gripes, though. Why was Faramir turned into
Boromir light? Why was Elrond made such a whiner? Why was Theoden
made feckless and indecisive even after Gandalf cured him of
Saruman's spell? I'm not an arch-purist. I had no problem with the
rewrite of Arwen in the Fellowship. I just can't grasp why Jackson
moved so far away from Tolkien on these points when i don't see how
they are cinematically necessary or improvements to the story.
My son, however, loved the battle scenes. ...
mark jaede
SPOILER... Don't read if you haven't seen The Two Towers...
I agree that some of the plot deviations seemed unecessary, and were
probably bad decisions with no real reason to advance the story. (The
aforementioned Aragorn off the cliff, vacillating Theoden, etc.)
However, there were a couple changes I liked. Aside from the Gollum
improvements, the other plot deviation I actually liked was the Elves
showing up at Helms Deep. I always wondered in the books why Tolkien
never had the Elves help out militarily. They seemed genuinely concerned
with the outcome, but in all cases all they appeared to want to do was
to let the party rest a bit, and then shove them out the door and leave
them on their own. This was a nice touch.
Mike Mulka
Mabey because Many of the Elves had left Middle Earth and they didn't
have many troops left.. mabey?
Urzahil wrote:
SPOILER... Don't read if you haven't seen The Two Towers...
I agree that some of the plot deviations seemed unecessary, and were
probably bad decisions with no real reason to advance the story. (The
aforementioned Aragorn off the cliff, vacillating Theoden, etc.)
However, there were a couple changes I liked. Aside from the Gollum
improvements, the other plot deviation I actually liked was the Elves
showing up at Helms Deep. I always wondered in the books why Tolkien
never had the Elves help out militarily. They seemed genuinely concerned
with the outcome, but in all cases all they appeared to want to do was
to let the party rest a bit, and then shove them out the door and leave
them on their own. This was a nice touch.Mike Mulka
Middle Earth PBM - hit reply to send to everyone
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Or because the Elven populations in Lorien and Mirkwood were under attack
of their own -- there WEREN'T any Elven populations close enough, and
large enough, to intervene in Helm's Deep without dangerously weakening
their own lands' defense.
(From that POV Sauron's major attack strategy was well-planned -- tie
up possible Northern allies of Gondor with wars of their own, and
then strike hard and fast at Gondor. Would have worked, too, if
not for the Ents rescuing Rohan from Saruman and protecting it from
a subsequent invasion.)
Tony Z
On Mon, Dec 23, 2002 at 10:25:34PM -0600, kurgan wrote:
Mabey because Many of the Elves had left Middle Earth and they didn't
have many troops left.. mabey?
--
Evil is best recognized not by its objectives but by the methods it is
willing to contemplate in pursuit of them. --Eric S. Raymond
SPOILER... Don't read if you haven't seen The Two Towers...
I agree that some of the plot deviations seemed unecessary, and were
probably bad decisions with no real reason to advance the story. (The
aforementioned Aragorn off the cliff, vacillating Theoden, etc.)
However, there were a couple changes I liked. Aside from the Gollum
improvements, the other plot deviation I actually liked was the Elves
showing up at Helms Deep. I always wondered in the books why Tolkien
never had the Elves help out militarily. They seemed genuinely concerned
with the outcome, but in all cases all they appeared to want to do was
to let the party rest a bit, and then shove them out the door and leave
them on their own. This was a nice touch.
Mike Mulka
RD: I have to agree, the elvish troops were VERY impressive. Before I saw the films, I visualised them as irregulars, fighting freestyle. But in the films, they have the discipline of a Guards battalion! I will never look at my Noldo or Sinda troops in quite the same light again.
Of course, given that they had lived for thousands of years, the elves had the time to master every military style ever devised, and use whichever one the situation demanded.
Richard.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Urzahil
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 4:15 AM
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Re: two towers (spoiler)