Unfed Army Movement Cost Clarification

mepbmlist
#1

I like to clarify the actual means of calculating movement cost for
unfed armies.

According to the rulebook, I can derive 2 methods of calculating
movement costs,

Method 1 (which I've always used and for which I've derived a
Mvmt Cost table on my website ... www.geocities.com/baerauble
... follow link). (The figures in brackets are movement cost for
unfed armies).

On Page 31 & Page 114 (1650 Rulebook), its given as

Without Food - Normal Movement Cost Plus One Third (4/3)
(Round Up for Each Hex).

I found my table almost always correct except for the odd times.
I found in these cases, it's almost always me who mis-calculated
and the table was not at fault. However there's the very rare cases
where it's apparent the only possible fault was my table.

So I came upon ...

Method Two
On Page 28 (1650 Rulebook Again), it's given that unfed army
"... begin to forage for food and Movement (movement is reduced
to less than 75% of the normal movement capacity) ..."

This means a normal unfed army have only 8 Movement Points
(instead of 9, remember ... less than 75%, 9 is exactly 75%) while
moving normally and 10 Movement Points while Force Marching. .

The "Less Than 75%" rule here is the difference, if you take the
Method One rule, you will find instances where you used exactly
75% of full movement points, explaining the odd cases where I
fnd myself 1 hex short.

The Simplified Formula for Method Two is ...
Actual Movement Points Available = 3/4 Movement Points (Rounded Up) - 1

Then you use the Charts on Page 31 & 113 as usual w/o having to add
the 4/3 additional mvmt costs.Get what I mean ?

Please Debate ... (Perhaps MEPBMGames can clarify for us which Method
is correct ??? 1 or 2 ??? ).

b.e.

#2

Not completely sure that I see why you would need a formula, as the movement points are always constant: 12 for MovArmy, 14 for ForcMar or MovNavy. (Let's for the moment ignore the utter lunacy of unfed navies moving 5). So it would, by your Method Two always be 7 for an unfed MovArmy or 10 for an unfed ForcMar or MovNavy.

The complications come, no doubt from the odd times when partially fed armies have to move.

I looked at your table, but I'm not sure it's easier to use than the one in the book. I'd like 4 little tables spaced apart: Fed All Cav; Hungry All Cav; Fed Other; Hungry Other. (I know I should do it myself)

Personally, I always forget to calculate in the bridges and fords when struggling with the unfed movement calculations.

I _thought_ that the movement addition for the bridge, ford, or minor river is added in _before_ the four thirds movement penalty was applied. So for moving an unfed infantry army across a ford into rough, I'd be adding the 1 to the 5 and then adding a third to that total and then rounding up:
  (1+5)x4/3 = 8 no rounding needed
However your table suggests that you interpret it as being applied to the components individually:
  1x4/3 = 1.33333333 rounded up to 2 for the bridge
  5x4/3 = 6.66666666 rounded up to 7 for the rough
A total of 9 for the move.

I expect I'm wrong. But if by any chance I'm not, this may be the explanation for the occasional differences you experience.

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 08:09 AM 17-02-02, baerauble etharr wrote:

The Simplified Formula for Method Two is ...
Actual Movement Points Available = 3/4 Movement Points (Rounded Up) - 1

#3

I've seen this before, asked about it, and received no reply:

Navies have 14 movement points, each water hex is 1, unfed
navies round your 1.333 up to 2, looks like 7 hexes of
movement....

Where does the 5 come from? I once went 4 with an unfed navy,
only because Teldumir was obviously into the sauce, and tried
climbing the mountains...

Regards,

Brad the Sailor

···

--- "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

(Let's for the moment ignore the utter lunacy of unfed
navies moving 5).

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#4

>The Simplified Formula for Method Two is ...
>Actual Movement Points Available = 3/4 Movement Points (Rounded Up) - 1

Not completely sure that I see why you would need a formula, as the
movement points are always constant: 12 for MovArmy, 14 for ForcMar or
MovNavy. (Let's for the moment ignore the utter lunacy of unfed navies
moving 5). So it would, by your Method Two always be 7 for an unfed
MovArmy or 10 for an unfed ForcMar or MovNavy.

The complications come, no doubt from the odd times when partially fed
armies have to move.

I looked at your table, but I'm not sure it's easier to use than the one

in

the book. I'd like 4 little tables spaced apart: Fed All Cav; Hungry All
Cav; Fed Other; Hungry Other. (I know I should do it myself)

Personally, I always forget to calculate in the bridges and fords when
struggling with the unfed movement calculations.

I _thought_ that the movement addition for the bridge, ford, or minor

river

is added in _before_ the four thirds movement penalty was applied. So for
moving an unfed infantry army across a ford into rough, I'd be adding the

1

to the 5 and then adding a third to that total and then rounding up:
  (1+5)x4/3 = 8 no rounding needed
However your table suggests that you interpret it as being applied to the
components individually:
  1x4/3 = 1.33333333 rounded up to 2 for the bridge
  5x4/3 = 6.66666666 rounded up to 7 for the rough
A total of 9 for the move.

I expect I'm wrong. But if by any chance I'm not, this may be the
explanation for the occasional differences you experience.

Laurence G. Tilley

RD: I'm pretty damn sure that foodless movement across bridges, minor rivers
& fords is NOT subject to the add 50% rule. If foodless, you add 50%
to -terrain- movement only, then add on bridges etc., exactly as you would
to normal movement.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Laurence G. Tilley <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>; MiddleEarthGames <ME@MiddleEarthGames.com>;
Mailing List (MEPBM Harlequin UK) <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Unfed Army Movement Cost Clarification

At 08:09 AM 17-02-02, baerauble etharr wrote:

#5

In the most unlikely place, which is why nobody finds about it till their unfed navy first fails to arrive. There's no mention of it under armies and navies, or under food, or under movement and the movement tables at the back of the rule book seem to show clearly that the foodless penalty is simply 4/3rds. But... if you look very, very, carefully, there in the small print of the 830 order, you'll find the (totally unexplained) comment that navies without food can only use 10 movement points. STILL almost guaranteed to make the landlubber think that his navy can move sensibly, because of course it suggests that this means 10 instead of the usual 14... But no... this restriction applies AS WELL AS the 4/3rds rounded up, hence a maximum movement of 5 for unfed navies.

I suppose they're mean to be fishing or something. Disgusted parties might wish to console themselves by dreaming with me how the 2nd Edition game might look http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/2nded.htm

Laurence G. Tilley

http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk

···

At 07:16 PM 17-02-02, Player wrote:

--- "Laurence G. Tilley" <laurence@lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> (Let's for the moment ignore the utter lunacy of unfed
> navies moving 5).

I've seen this before, asked about it, and received no reply:

Navies have 14 movement points, each water hex is 1, unfed
navies round your 1.333 up to 2, looks like 7 hexes of
movement....

Where does the 5 come from?

#6

Second edition rules...

Hello Lawrence,

I just read your webpage dealing with the proposed
second edition changes in MEPBM. The two things I
liked the most were your combat (nation, terrain,
troop type) suggestions, and the artifact alterations.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be, but I love the
idea of randomizing artifact numbers, but making the
"research artifact" include up to 6 artifact numbers
and powers.

This way, a nation with powerful mages (like in the FA
or with the Noldor in the 1650 or 2950) could get a
lot of information on artifacts with 4-5 turns of
research, but it would still add some mystery and
surprise over who finally gets those powerful
artifacts in each game.

Some fascinating ideas at any rate...

Nick Cody

···

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