What is good play ?

mepbmlist
#1

Perhaps you should save your prejudices and stereotypes for a more
appropriate time.

It is neither prejudiced nor stereotyping to point out
that Americans and Europeans are different. We have very
different educational and social systems and that,
naturally, influences our adult lives and the views we
hold. Competetive sports are a very good example of how the
American attitude is very different from the European one. You
only have to look at college games, for example, to see how
we differ in our outlooks.

From the evidence of this discussion, these differences carry
over into MEPBM.

For your information, I have travelled widely in both continents
and indeed will be off to the US once again in November. Further,
I work with many Americans and count more than a few among
my friends.

I fear, however, that we are risking the wrath of the Clint.

Gavin

#2

Gavin Wynford-Jones wrote:

It is neither prejudiced nor stereotyping to point out that Americans and Europeans are different. We have very different educational and social systems and that, naturally, influences our adult lives and the views we hold. Competetive sports are a very good example of how the American attitude is very different from the European one. You only have to look at college games, for example, to see how we differ in our outlooks.

While I agree that we have different social systems, Europeans are just as passionate about their sports as Americans are. Hooligans are an English phenomenon, after all, and I've seen your football celebrations.

You seemed to be implying, however, that the American view, the ratings view, was going to ruin MEPBM. Since it's the GMs who like the ratings system, I thought that an unfair characterization.

I fear, however, that we are risking the wrath of the Clint.

We really should make him an NPC in the scenarios. "Loyalty influenced by the presence of The Clint at Minas Tirith." Maybe he could even be army-recuitable, or give free turns for an encounter. :-))

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

#3

We really should make him an NPC in the scenarios. "Loyalty influenced
by the presence of The Clint at Minas Tirith." Maybe he could even be
army-recuitable, or give free turns for an encounter. :-))

                 jason

That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long, long, long, time.

- E

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

> I fear, however, that we are risking the wrath of the Clint.

We really should make him an NPC in the scenarios. "Loyalty influenced
by the presence of The Clint at Minas Tirith." Maybe he could even be
army-recuitable, or give free turns for an encounter. :-))

I doubt you'll get me in an army but you can weedle out a few free turns from me in an encounter - but I'm expensive... :slight_smile:

Clint

#5

--- In mepbmlist@y..., Gavin Wynford-Jones <gavinwj@c...> wrote:

> Perhaps you should save your prejudices and stereotypes for a

more

> appropriate time.

It is neither prejudiced nor stereotyping to point out
that Americans and Europeans are different.

True in the abstract.

We have very

different educational and social systems and that,
naturally, influences our adult lives and the views we
hold.

True in many respects.

Competetive sports are a very good example of how the

American attitude is very different from the European one. You
only have to look at college games, for example, to see how
we differ in our outlooks.

Here's where your case starts coming apart on the details. While you
are quite right that our college football and basketball games (and
even high school games in some states) can bring out the worst sort
of tribalistic kill-the-enemy sorts of attitudes in the US, you
conveniently overlook such unlovely Europeanisms as Belgian football
riots and Northern Italian crowds cursing and taunting Southern
Italian teams and fans. Sadly, there are louts on both sides of the
Atlantic, though they may follow different patterns in their
loutishness.

From the evidence of this discussion, these differences carry
over into MEPBM.

Some of it does; some of it doesn't. I'm a Yank and I have said that
I just don't care about the rating system. My American friend Marc
Pinsonneault has written that he wants a rating system to help
balance teams, not to prove that he is a winner. Darrell Shimel,
another Yank, opposes the ratings systems because he thinks they
won't work properly. Some Brits seem to like the proposed system.

My point is that life is always far too complicated to boil down to
statements like yours, and you should not be surprised if some of
your readers take offense.

For your information, I have travelled widely in both continents
and indeed will be off to the US once again in November. Further,
I work with many Americans and count more than a few among
my friends.

I believe it. And I'm sure you deal with them as individuals, not as
stereotypes.

Best,

Mark Jaede
(who loves everything about the Brits except their cooking)

#6

Gavin Wynford-Jones wrote:

> It is neither prejudiced nor stereotyping to point out
> that Americans and Europeans are different.

Jason mentioned prejudices and stereotypes, you then
selected the Amer/Euro item only. Besides your snooty
note that my items are irrelevant (simple illustrations
to convey my frustration at our all-too common victim
mentality of "it's NOT FAIR!" whiners), you also implied
that you are the only player in MEPBM that knew how to
play neutrals, insulting pretty much the rest of us, and
you implied that Americans were much the source of all
the selfish/individualistic "un-fun"isms in MEPBM, etc.

Not sure how many different groups of individuals, who
mostly play to have fun, you have to disparage in order
to try and make your point and I don't know why one must
pull in the over-taxed post-takeover culture-clash card
to further it, but I do know that most would prefer if
we kept to Middle Earth on the list. Next time you
disagree with my Middle Earth ideas and opinions, keep
your reply within the context of the game instead of
insulting me, non-Europeans, and everyone else who doesn't
play neutrals "properly" according to yourself. I won't
apologize for the length of my various post nor the passion
for the game they reflect.

Thanks.

Brad

···

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

#7

My point is that life is always far too complicated to boil down to
statements like yours, and you should not be surprised if some of
your readers take offense.

For your information, I have travelled widely in both continents
and indeed will be off to the US once again in November. Further,
I work with many Americans and count more than a few among
my friends.

I believe it. And I'm sure you deal with them as individuals, not as
stereotypes.

Best,

Mark Jaede
(who loves everything about the Brits except their cooking)

RD: Spike Milligan (Irish comic genius) pointed out that the English even burnt Joan of Arc!

C'mon Mark, it's not a REAL toad in the hole, you know.

I'd be interested to know what you think of as British cooking. It must be even more difficult to generalise about American cooking - even more different ethnic influences. I'm talking proper cooking here, not McDonalds.

Richard.

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#8

I'd be interested to know what you think of as British cooking.

Steak and kidney pie? Haggis? Overcooked veggies? Don't take me too
seriously, Richard. It was just a cheap shot.

It must be even more difficult to generalise about American

cooking - even more different ethnic influences. I'm talking proper
cooking here, not McDonalds.

Well, McDonald's is a less illustrious part of the glorious panoply
that is US cooking. I have no idea how to define our cuisine. It's
everything from Kim Chee to Collard Greens. Large portions,
especially of meat, and a tendency to deep fry stuff and wash it down
with Diet Coke. Go figure.

Mark

#9

I'd be interested to know what you think of as British cooking.

  Steak and kidney pie? Haggis? Overcooked veggies? Don't take me too
  seriously, Richard. It was just a cheap shot.

  > It must be even more difficult to generalise about American
  cooking - even more different ethnic influences. I'm talking proper
  cooking here, not McDonalds.

  Well, McDonald's is a less illustrious part of the glorious panoply
  that is US cooking. I have no idea how to define our cuisine. It's
  everything from Kim Chee to Collard Greens. Large portions,
  especially of meat, and a tendency to deep fry stuff and wash it down
  with Diet Coke. Go figure.

  Mark
  RD: Sounded ok till you mentioned diet coke - bleugh! Talk about a triumph of marketing over taste.

  Richard.

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              ADVERTISEMENT
             
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···

----- Original Message -----
  From: taurnil
  To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:29 PM
  Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: What is good play ?

#10

Richard DEVEREUX wrote:

  Well, McDonald's is a less illustrious part of the glorious panoply
  that is US cooking. I have no idea how to define our cuisine. It's
  everything from Kim Chee to Collard Greens. Large portions,
  especially of meat, and a tendency to deep fry stuff and wash it down
  with Diet Coke. Go figure.

  Mark

  RD: Sounded ok till you mentioned diet coke - bleugh! Talk about a triumph of marketing over taste.

I had a debate coach in high school (I forget the British term) who easily weighed over 300 pounds. It was a running joke on the team that he always drank Diet Coke, even though he ate too much, never exercised, and was narcoleptic, to boot.

"Four burgers, three fries, a shake, and a Diet Coke!" :-))

      jason

···

--
Jason Bennett, jasonab@acm.org
E pur si muove!

#11

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "taurnil" <taurnil@y...> wrote:

Well, McDonald's is a less illustrious part of the glorious
panoply that is US cooking. I have no idea how to define our
cuisine. It's everything from Kim Chee to Collard Greens. Large
portions, especially of meat, and a tendency to deep fry stuff
and wash it down with Diet Coke. Go figure.

Mark

Also a tendency to grill/bbq/bake everything. Several of my US
friends almost shudder when I mention that good fish, like trout and
salmon, should be boiled, not stuffed in the oven. And that it's
possible to boil stuff like chicken and ham and make good dishes.
Oh, and that a good steak is made even better with a great sauce,
like a yummy bearnaise. (That last one almost got me stoned :wink:

Øystein

#12

Also a tendency to grill/bbq/bake everything. Several of my US
friends almost shudder when I mention that good fish, like trout

and

salmon, should be boiled, not stuffed in the oven. And that it's
possible to boil stuff like chicken and ham and make good dishes.
Oh, and that a good steak is made even better with a great sauce,
like a yummy bearnaise. (That last one almost got me stoned :wink:

Øystein

Hey, chicken and ham do great in a boiled and seasoned dish like
gumbo, but can we grill the salmon and then put sauce on top? :slight_smile:

Mark