Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?

I’m on Jihad! “Crusade” is outdated (and historically less effective).

Good to know PRS is coming back…Â Do you have results going back to GSI?? That’d help for accuracy. I looked them over some months back and saw some anomalies. Some “Cliff” guy kept popping up….

I don't know whenever we did it we did a poll for GSI players (DGE) and the guys from Bude and added that in so the simple answer is yes.

b

From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 8:37 AM
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?

I suspect that when we get the PRS up again that
it will encourage things but I think the 12 team
(or 6x2or whatever versions) is going to be hard ot get back.

Clint

>
>Ernie, very well said.
>
>So, basically, crappy teams got the snot beat
>out of them and quit. Good to know.
>
>Yes, I’m taunting!  [Not you, Ernie. I want no piece of that!]
>
>Maybe we could have like an NFL Europe? Yes,
>I’m taunting the Europeans! En masse!
>
>Remember the good ol’ days of the World
>Championships? Can we have a do-over on that
>(nations represented by people of questionable
>lineage – émigrés to conttinents to the far
>southern and eastern hemisphere – not Â
>allowwed)? Still stinging from that
>ass-kicking by the Convi… errr… Aussies. I owe
>one to ‘em for RKG (well, someone ellse does,
>but, again, I won’t name names – just settle scorees!).
>
>b (Banging the Drum… just not Slowly)
>
>From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Ernie DrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist]
>Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 6:03 PM
>To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?
>
>Counterpoint - many, if not most "individual"
>games today, thanks to everyone being quick to
>create groups and share pdfs etc., are fairly
>close to grudge games. It is hard to get a big
>team of players together who are willing to put
>in the fairly high level of effort needed to run
>a truly effective grudge team - and with no
>Neutrals involved, if you have a devoted,
>competent grudge team where everyone is that
>committed, and they go up against a team that
>someone cobbled together that hasn't worked
>together before as a grudge team and has some
>players unable or unwilling to put in that
>effort, the outcome is practically preordained.
>And while that may be fun for the well-oiled
>machine that wants to prove itself invincible,
>it is not much fun to be the opposition.
>
>So in my opinion, a small number of successful
>grudge teams basically won consistently enough
>that they weeded out other teams that might
>eventually have become viable grudge teams,
>basically succeeding too well and getting to the
>point where most players who were not in the
>"elite machine teams" no longer wanted to even consider grudge games.
>
>Meanwhile, for those wishing to hone their 1650
>tactical skills - because there is no diplomacy
>in grudge games either - found it a nice
>challenge to get into a 2 or 3 nation gunboat game.
>
>Over in the FA column, the gunboat game is an
>anacronism - I organized it, with numerous
>special rules, as a three-sided, 3 theatres of
>operation special game - before that there had
>been a long drought of gunboat games there.
>Almost all FA games have been individuals and
>small teams, and my experience has been some
>games get up to near grudge game levels if
>cooperation, while others do not, and
>admittedly, the Neutral presence can unbalance a
>game, but it can also be used to try to
>rebalance a game if one one side starts beating
>the other too badly. I am in such a game now.
>
>Anyway, I agree that a good grudge team is
>awesome to work with. But the two grudge teams I
>have worked with in the past have moved on, some
>players don't play any more, others are playing
>other games, and I personally would rather spend
>the effort I'd have had to put into a grudge
>game into two regular games. I prefer 4th Age
>anyway, I love having each game be a new world
>rather than the same old same old. My last
>grudge games, years ago, were actually 4th Age
>prior to the MEGames revision of the startup
>rules, we had a serpentine draft for regions,
>two teams of 12, with the unpicked region left
>open for later expansion into, it worked out well.
>
>One final thought, since grudge teams are
>supposed to be highly cooperative endeavors
>anyways, you might want to allow each player to
>play up to two nations, allow teams of 6-12
>players, without requiring both teams have the
>same number of players. Folks might be able to
>get a team together of folks willing to put in
>that extra effort without needing to find 12...
>
>Ernie III, playing since forever...
>
>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>From: Benjamin Shushan bshushan@earthlink.net
>[mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Mon, Sep 4, 2017 04:02 PM
>Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?
>
>Thanks Clint! Interesting stuff.
>
>I’m enjoying my first KS Grudge at the moment,
>but 1650 is still the Happy Place. I’d be
>interested to see the scenario-by-scenario split.
>
>Sad to see the decline of 2950. 2 whole
>games! SMH I had hoped GB would be a minor
>overcorrection for the time-limited and
>diplomacy-challenged. The law of Unintended Consequence rears its ugly head.
>
>All of the above notwithstanding, I meant to convey:
>
>A CALL TO ARMS AMONG THE PLAYER COMMUNITY!
>
>(not to discount you as a playing member…. but… well…. umm…).
>
>PEOPLE, THIS IS A TEAM GAME!!!!!!!
>
>Gunboat is antithetical. Go play a first-person shooter.
>
>Grudge Games are the highest and best form of
>MEPBM. If you can’t find 11 (how about 5 and
>each take 2 nations) people you want to actually
>communicate and coordinate with, fully, WTF has happened?
>
>I see a lot of KS in my future (someone else I
>know feels the same way, but I won’t name
>names – don’t want to feed thhe animals).
>
>Come on folks – form up a grudge team and
>advertise! We (royal) will be ready to kick ass and take names….
>
>b
>
>From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME Games
>Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
>Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:51 AM
>To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?
>
>Hi
>
>Here's some information Ben, most 1650 games are Gunboat, most KS
>
>games are Grudge (easier to co-ordinate 7 or less players than
>
>12!)Â FAS has no Grudge games, can't remember the last time one run
>
>either. So Grudge hasn't gone, it's moved onto KS games mostly with
>
>some 1/4 of 1650 still Grudge games.
>
>                 Total  1650   2950   FAS    KS
>
>Individual     33%    36%    50%    67%    22%
>
>GBÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 38%Â Â Â Â 55%Â Â Â Â 50%Â Â Â Â 33%Â Â Â Â 22%
>
>Grudge 23%    9%     0%     0%     56%
>
>Clint
>
> >Apologies to Pete Seeger (for ironic twist, if nothing else).
>
> >
>
> >Used to be, one could find a proper (grudge) game quickly and
>
> >easily. Seems to be a much smaller market these days...
>
> >
>
> >Have things changed _that_ much in six years?
>
> >
>
> >b (All Comers Welcome)
>
> >
>
> >------------------------------------
>
> >Posted by: Benjamin Shushan
> <<mailto:bshushan@earthlink.net>bshushan@earthlink.net>
>
> >------------------------------------
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At 17:57 05/09/2017, you wrote:

At 04:12 05/09/2017, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>At 14:20 04/09/2017, you wrote: