Iâm on Jihad! âCrusadeâ is outdated (and historically less effective).
Good to know PRS is coming back  Do you have results going back to GSI?? Thatâd help for accuracy. I looked them over some months back and saw some anomalies. Some âCliffâ guy kept popping up .
I don't know whenever we did it we did a poll for GSI players (DGE) and the guys from Bude and added that in so the simple answer is yes.
b
From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 8:37 AM
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?I suspect that when we get the PRS up again that
it will encourage things but I think the 12 team
(or 6x2or whatever versions) is going to be hard ot get back.Clint
>
>Ernie, very well said.
>
>So, basically, crappy teams got the snot beat
>out of them and quit.ÃÂ Good to know.
>
>Yes, IâÂÂm taunting!àà[Not you, Ernie.àI want no piece of that!]
>
>Maybe we could have like an NFL Europe?ÃÂ Yes,
>IâÂÂm taunting the Europeans!àEn masse!
>
>Remember the good olâ days of the World
>Championships?ÃÂ Can we have a do-over on that
>(nations represented by people of questionable
>lineage  Ã©migrés to conttinents to the far
>southern and eastern hemisphere  not Ã
>allowwed)?ÃÂ Still stinging from that
>ass-kicking by the Convi errr Aussies.àI owe
>one to âÂÂem for RKG (well, someone ellse does,
>but, again, I wonâÂÂt name names  just settle scorees!).
>
>b (Banging the Drum just not Slowly)
>
>From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Ernie DrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist]
>Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 6:03 PM
>To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?
>
>Counterpoint - many, if not most "individual"
>games today, thanks to everyone being quick to
>create groups and share pdfs etc., are fairly
>close to grudge games. It is hard to get a big
>team of players together who are willing to put
>in the fairly high level of effort needed to run
>a truly effective grudge team - and with no
>Neutrals involved, if you have a devoted,
>competent grudge team where everyone is that
>committed, and they go up against a team that
>someone cobbled together that hasn't worked
>together before as a grudge team and has some
>players unable or unwilling to put in that
>effort, the outcome is practically preordained.
>And while that may be fun for the well-oiled
>machine that wants to prove itself invincible,
>it is not much fun to be the opposition.
>
>So in my opinion, a small number of successful
>grudge teams basically won consistently enough
>that they weeded out other teams that might
>eventually have become viable grudge teams,
>basically succeeding too well and getting to the
>point where most players who were not in the
>"elite machine teams" no longer wanted to even consider grudge games.
>
>Meanwhile, for those wishing to hone their 1650
>tactical skills - because there is no diplomacy
>in grudge games either - found it a nice
>challenge to get into a 2 or 3 nation gunboat game.
>
>Over in the FA column, the gunboat game is an
>anacronism - I organized it, with numerous
>special rules, as a three-sided, 3 theatres of
>operation special game - before that there had
>been a long drought of gunboat games there.
>Almost all FA games have been individuals and
>small teams, and my experience has been some
>games get up to near grudge game levels if
>cooperation, while others do not, and
>admittedly, the Neutral presence can unbalance a
>game, but it can also be used to try to
>rebalance a game if one one side starts beating
>the other too badly. I am in such a game now.
>
>Anyway, I agree that a good grudge team is
>awesome to work with. But the two grudge teams I
>have worked with in the past have moved on, some
>players don't play any more, others are playing
>other games, and I personally would rather spend
>the effort I'd have had to put into a grudge
>game into two regular games. I prefer 4th Age
>anyway, I love having each game be a new world
>rather than the same old same old. My last
>grudge games, years ago, were actually 4th Age
>prior to the MEGames revision of the startup
>rules, we had a serpentine draft for regions,
>two teams of 12, with the unpicked region left
>open for later expansion into, it worked out well.
>
>One final thought, since grudge teams are
>supposed to be highly cooperative endeavors
>anyways, you might want to allow each player to
>play up to two nations, allow teams of 6-12
>players, without requiring both teams have the
>same number of players. Folks might be able to
>get a team together of folks willing to put in
>that extra effort without needing to find 12...
>
>Ernie III, playing since forever...
>
>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>From: Benjamin Shushan bshushan@earthlink.net
>[mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Mon, Sep 4, 2017 04:02 PM
>Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?
>
>Thanks Clint! Interesting stuff.
>
>IâÂÂm enjoying my first KS Grudge at the moment,
>but 1650 is still the Happy Place. IâÂÂd be
>interested to see the scenario-by-scenario split.
>
>Sad to see the decline of 2950. 2 whole
>games! SMH I had hoped GB would be a minor
>overcorrection for the time-limited and
>diplomacy-challenged. The law of Unintended Consequence rears its ugly head.
>
>All of the above notwithstanding, I meant to convey:
>
>A CALL TO ARMS AMONG THE PLAYER COMMUNITY!
>
>(not to discount you as a playing member . but well . umm ).
>
>PEOPLE, THIS IS A TEAM GAME!!!!!!!
>
>Gunboat is antithetical. Go play a first-person shooter.
>
>Grudge Games are the highest and best form of
>MEPBM. If you canâÂÂt find 11 (how about 5 and
>each take 2 nations) people you want to actually
>communicate and coordinate with, fully, WTF has happened?
>
>I see a lot of KS in my future (someone else I
>know feels the same way, but I wonâÂÂt name
>names  donâÂÂt want to feed thhe animals).
>
>Come on folks  form up a grudge team and
>advertise! We (royal) will be ready to kick ass and take names .
>
>b
>
>From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>ME Games
>Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]
>Sent: Monday, September 4, 2017 10:51 AM
>To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Where Have All The Grudge Games Gone?
>
>Hi
>
>Here's some information Ben, most 1650 games are Gunboat, most KS
>
>games are Grudge (easier to co-ordinate 7 or less players than
>
>12!)Â FAS has no Grudge games, can't remember the last time one run
>
>either. So Grudge hasn't gone, it's moved onto KS games mostly with
>
>some 1/4 of 1650 still Grudge games.
>
>                 Total  1650   2950   FAS    KS
>
>Individual     33%    36%    50%    67%    22%
>
>GBÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 38%Â Â Â Â 55%Â Â Â Â 50%Â Â Â Â 33%Â Â Â Â 22%
>
>Grudge 23%    9%     0%     0%     56%
>
>Clint
>
> >Apologies to Pete Seeger (for ironic twist, if nothing else).
>
> >
>
> >Used to be, one could find a proper (grudge) game quickly and
>
> >easily. Seems to be a much smaller market these days...
>
> >
>
> >Have things changed _that_ much in six years?
>
> >
>
> >b (All Comers Welcome)
>
> >
>
> >------------------------------------
>
> >Posted by: Benjamin Shushan
> <<mailto:bshushan@earthlink.net>bshushan@earthlink.net>
>
> >------------------------------------
>
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> >
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···
At 17:57 05/09/2017, you wrote:
At 04:12 05/09/2017, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>At 14:20 04/09/2017, you wrote: