Why don't the Free always win in 1650?

Why don’t the free win 100% of games in 1650?

It seems to me when I play a Mordor DS, in some of my games, all the free throw everything at Mordor. And when they do - especially in GB or the new form of GB with Rewards and diplos ever turn – Mordor always seems to get overwhelmed. The number of FP troops is staggering, counting NG, SG, Dunland cavalry, Iron Hills Dwarves, Northmen from 3108/3108 and of course Eothraim. On turn 4 there is the huge battle at 3124 or 3224 with the Blind Sorceror and CloudLord armies which are never enough, and then turn 5 the FP are in. Eothraim may have made it to IK capital or Morannon. In these games, they seem unstoppable and it would seem that the FP should be able to win every game this way. Why don’t they?

Of course, one reason is that the FP don’t always play this strategy. Sometimes the Dun’s don’t send cavalry, some SG players send their troops to help Harad (not unreasonable), or the Eothraim play more cautiously and defensively against the DogLord troops, or go help the Northmen.

I would suppose that another reason is that every few games, either Din Ohtar or the Cloud Lord agents – perhaps bolstered by generous DogLord/DarkLts players with their artifacts – can take out key armies, though it seems to me that early in the game JI Indur is more likely to fail than succeed, against NG/SG Lords and Regents; and the Eothraim usually have several backup commanders.

It doesn’t help that so many Blind Sorcerors, having launched their initial army, don’t continue to recruit at 3627 and so many CloudLord players, loathe to have to name commanders, don’t recruit at 3630, so there is often no defense inside Mordor once there is penetration… I’ve even seen DarkLts nations not doing much recruitment after the first few turns. But I’m not sure that overall those troops would do more than defend a few popcenters, after the main damage has been done at 3122, 3224, 3426, 3423.

Maybe in those games when Din Ohtar is positioned and used right away to take out the bridges?

I don’t know. But it certainly seems to me that the FP going after Mordor is like the tide coming in, when I’m on the receiving end! :slight_smile:


I learned a lot from playing a couple of 1 vs 1 grudge matches in the KS scenario. Since one player is playing all the positions on one side, it allows for the free transfer of resources to make the entire alliance (not individual nations) more effective. Each nation becomes a selfless, team player in order to make the alliance stronger.

I suspect that the DS in 1650 NEED more teamwork if they are going to win. The FP can stay somewhat individualistic as they throw armies toward Mordor in that flood you mentioned. “Go wipe out what you can.”

But the DS nations have to be more selfless to win. The nations with agent and stealth artifacts, if they are committed to winning, must transfer those artifacts to the Cloud Lord in order to maximize early assassation chances. If you give Ji Indur the DarkLts stealth artifact and a couple of Long Rider agent artifacts, getting him to around +100 agent, +75 stealth when adding the Cloud Lord bonus to assassinate, then I don’t think he’s going to have much trouble killing NGondor lord/regent army commanders.

If the DS pick up the Ring of Wind, Ring of Curufin, Ring of Impersonation, etc. will those artifacts go to Cloud Lord agents? If the answer is yes, I would think they have a much better chance of keeping the FP at bay, extending the game into the middle turns, and ultimately winning.

In 1650 normal it is all about team work and working as one. Without that regardless of side you will not win against a team approach, if you do not have one.
In 1650 GB -
DS have a harder time as CL can not see everything and do not know the sub-commanders as well. DS requires in my opinion blocking/aggressive armies out of the North Gate. You have to slow down the FP and have them chase you until you can get dragons. DS front liners need to send 1 emmy and their bad character to the Mts to place camps and hope to get a dragon. LR in my opinion needs to keep two of the agent artifacts to take out the bridges early and watch the back door (he is the only one that can see it well in GB). Most of the other agent artifacts can go to the CL and CL needs Rhu commanders to keep tabs on everything around Mordor (boring but need those recons to react properly. I think a big mistake the DS do is leave everyone in Mordor. You need to hit a few of the FP recruiting bases/capitals EO/Harad/SG then NM? If you just sit in Mordor, once the goods take out DrgL and WK/Rhu then little chance you are getting to EOPLEX or into NG or Mirkwood. And of course good Diplos are needed to coordinate who is going at what artifacts and the like. Corsairs having success against Harad is also very big as it will take SG troops away from the passes. DS also need to make sure the place a camp here and there in blind spots through out the map to be used to confuse the FP with DS icons popping up on their maps and slowing down the HC from Arth/Cards/Duns from heading east. GB is harder on DS I feel but if played well with good diplo and sharing it can be fun.
Just a few of my thoughts - John