The +10 skill could also be modified - in 12v12 I think it helps the NM most for FP, and DS Harad (more so). It’s not something that is in general games is offered though.
(Out of curiousity this is what I’d do for a Grudge game DS).
11: Angulion + 10 Em, Ulrac + 10 Ag Rating 2/5
12: Khamul + 10 Ag, Lhachglin + 10 Com Rating 5/5
13: Dendra + 10 Em Borhan + 10 Com Rating 3/5
14: Shoglic + 10 Com, Kadida + 10 Ag Rating 5/5
15: Mardrash + 10 Com, Pochak + 10 Com Rating 3/5
16: Gaurhir + 20 Ag Rating 3/5
17: Herumor + 10 Com, Thergor + 10 Ag Rating 2/5
18: Rozilcon + 10 Com, Uthmag + 10 Com R: 5/5
19: Din Ohtar + 10 Ag, Uvatha + 10 Ag R: 3/5
20: Carrog + 20 Ag R: 3/5
22: Ejenna + 10 Com, Shabla + 10 Com R: 4/5
24: Broggha + 20 Com R: 2/5
It’s interesting to get a look into your mind for change Clint… I have never faced you or teamed with you before… This is definitely one of those grudge game modifications but interesting…
Yes I aggree on Helping NM the most… Just also makes the a definite Din target on turn 1 to… So porbably even’s to no real effect after turn 2 in favor of NM… Taking that in account would lead me to believe it just widens the DS character gap further…
WK: I’d make either angulion or dancu +10agent to be able to name A30’s without spending 10k. I like the +10 Emmy on Angulion.
Dragon Lord: Agree with Khamul +10A but perhaps +10E to Maben so she can drop camps while hunting artifacts etc.
CL: I’d +10A to gontran instead of boosting shoglic. Retire shoglic and name a C30 who can eventually do upgrades etc.
BS: +10E to akhorahil instead of +10C to pochak
QA: I would make someone an E40 so they can take advantage of naming more E40’s immediately
Rhu: Briam +20E to save you a command order and 5k early on when naming your first E30.
In my opinion this wouldn’t be so bad for the FP if the Duns and Northmen were able to boost a guy to A40 and E40 at game start…but since they can’t it’s clearly a DS advantage to get out of the gate with agents so much faster and also to save them $$$ and command orders naming starting E30 & A30’s for 5k.
QA I had a 40 Em (got lucky!) so didn’t need it but otherwise I agree.
Who’d name Emi’s with Rhudaur?! :eek: Ditto Agents for WK. Dragon Lord short on commanders - (so far not lost a PC in the Grudge game t9) but definitely debatable.
CL: too slow to name a commander - can’t move off in time and cost you a bomb in upkeep to keep the army around.
BS: gave me a down/upgrader. (Did exactly that with the Dog Lord though to get the cheap em).
Nope - went for the 50/50 on the block, forgot to scout your commander despite sending an agent (or a 925 either was available) and then recruiting instead of getting another Emi out. Pressure from you guys brought on the Cloud Lord’s demise… :bash:
heh I make mistakes in games too…
:rolleyes:
Clint (player)
Oh, I didn’t realize that you were getting the bonus AFTER seeing your turn 0…well in that case it completely changes what I might do depending on what bonuses occurred and where characters started etc.
I’m curious to why you would never name an emmy with Rhudaur or agents with the WK? We are putting both to good use in our current grudge game.
Cos’ then you lose the NW as you’re short one commander and you’re desperately short on characters as it is. Why name Agents with WK - IK, QA, CL, Drag (I think some of the others do as well Dog gets stealth doesn’t he?, BS has spare slots so why not name the odd Agent) all name better agents that you so why not let them do that? (Most other nations are under a lot less pressure so have “spare” characters). Occasionally I reluctantly name a company commander for Murazor and Angulion is off camping but I’m in trouble then… I’d say that out of any nation (other than say the Harad and possibly the DkL) it’s the worst nation to name an Agent with. But that’s just my opinion.
Rhudaur I like a 10/20Em that way you can pick up PCs when all is lost and gain stat happily whilst you slowly fall into oblivion (or with slightly more alacrity cough).
What’s with this extra 20pts per nation? From what’s said this is something extra beyond the semi-random +10 bonus to a stat every nation gets in a standard game. Is it something specific to grudge match, or 1 to 1’s or something?
Interesting Clint… I to would never name agents with WK either… I consider it a strict military nation so would probably opt for 2 30 coms and 2 30 emmy’s …
Rhuadar though I would name 2 30 emmy’s and 2 10/20 com agents… I like these guys alot for flexibility… Going Ds may not be needed at all but you never know if WM might target your weak characters for fast buildup of Agents Sinda also for that matter…
Dragonlord as I have written needs emmy’s badly… I think it’s great no pc loss on turn 9 but sheesh that is rare I sure some stragey mistakes were made for that to happen… But 2 30 emmies and 30 agents … emmies for you agents for the team!
I’ve played the +10 to one character per nation once, I think the +20 is a little much, though… Makes the decisions that much “easier”, frankly.
What they do is send out the Turn 0’s, then you have to send in your +10’s before the first turn, so they make the mods and then run T1, so your Turn 1 pdf’s show all the updated skills.
This also makes it sooo much easier. Take the Sinda for example. Never enough commanders, give the DS Reveal Pop on turn 1 and bye-bye 2514 turn 2… But Wait! I can give Nimrodel +10 command skill, Hire an Army and with the help of my good buddy from 2711, 2514 is safe and secure no matter what the DS do in the early game! But there is also some screwy temptation going on when you use this info and the Turn 0… Say, Ringlin get’s a starting Stealth bonus, well, one might consider giving him +10 agent “for future use”. End result, it’s either never used, or used at the sacrifice of crucial FP mage play.
As a general rule, where possible, pump up starting characters to match SNA’s (ie QA emis, Cloud/Ice/Dragon agents). Otherwise, default to Com skill where a) you want extra skill (up to 40) for capital orders or b) where you can augment your recruiting (ie Finduilas, Chilperic, etc…). Heck, with +20 I’d be tempted to give it all to one of the Arth 10 mage characters and get them going there for 5,000 instead of 10,000 for a new 30pointer…
Hrm. My immediate thought is this favors the DS greatly. Each of the Nazgul nations have a character with 30 stealth, though not all of them are agents. Now they would be. I cannot understand why the natural inclination of every DS wouldn’t be to add agent ability to all their characters with stealth, including characters like Araudagul. Glancing at it, that would allow the DS to have eight additional agents with stealth, virtually all of them with thirty. (Murazor, Duran, Dendra-Dwar, Araudagul, Akhorahil, Malezar, Adunaphel and Ren)
On the other hand, the Free People’s could add only five agents with stealth, most of them with only 15-20, and at the most 25 without some luck on the bonus skill distribution. Do the DS really need more of an agent advantage over the Free Peoples? Isn’t an agent with stealth considered amongst the most valuable assets a nation can have?
Perhaps I’m so rusty I’m out of it, but I see indications that agents with stealth are still considered quite valuable, including the fact you can’t use this ten or twenty points to add to stealth. From reading the new rules for Fourth Age it appears players are still so paranoid of agent actions in standard games the +20 to kidnapping SNA has been raised to 20k cost and only one nation per faction can have it and if one side does the GM will take the unusual step of informing the opposition and allowing them to have a nation set up that way as well. Other games it appears are even more strict: they won’t even allow the stealth, 40 point agent or double-scouting SNAs!
Thus now the Dark Servants wouldn’t just have the only nation with the +20 kidnap/assassination, the only nations with both 40 point agents and increased stealth, plus two double-scouting nations one of them with the greater stealth bonus possibility as well, but they’d also start the game with the option to add up to eight additional agents with all but one having 30 stealth!
I freely admit I’ve played all of one turn of ME-PBM since roughly the mid-nineties, thus there might have been changes in the game I’m unaware of, but I recall as I was leaving GSI’s they tried to do something to double guarding or somesuch and that apparently did so little by the time I tried to return to the game circa 2000 with Deft the forums there were filled with constant snivelling by Freep players that the game was ‘broken’ due to the DS agent advantage. I always maintained there were countermeasures Freeps could employ against agent actions and got so sick of reading the incessant mewling on that site I spent hours writing strategy tips for the Freep positions on Fascade’s site to relay some of the things I learned when playing back in the day. (some of which were urban legends I found out as I re-read them recently and compared them to things I’ve learned since lurking this and other sites–sorry about that!)
However this would seem to break that delicate balance wide open. Were I playing a Dark Sevant nations I’d love it if the Freeps were silly enough to permit it, but as a Freep I couldn’t countance it unless the Freeps were allowed to use those points on stealth and the Dark Servants weren’t. That would make things interesting, as the Dark Servants could still add eight additional agents with stealth, but the Freeps could counter by adding at least eight more agents with 10-20 stealth as well.
I think we may be talking about different time-frames. If you are purely talking about what type of character you name with your first 4 slots then yes I agree that agents are not a good move for the WK.
I would think the WK better have at least some agents if he plans on surviving. He’s smack dab in the middle of the three best Freep agent nations, all of whom could get stealth, and if Dunland goes Free that makes his position untenable on the agent front. Cardolan often concentrates on agents as well. If you stop and think about it, eventually the Free Peoples can give the Witch King a harder time of it with agents than Mordor can Gondor…
The list above was for a grudge game. Not sure they were around when you were playing 12v12 game. The Duns are FP, Rhudaur are DS (No Easterlings), Har FP, Cor DS. So you’re aware of your opposition - it’s a straight fight, no diplomacy. My style of game is very militaristic…
In a non-grudge game I’d have to consider what I’d do and how that would impact on things - totally depend on my team-mates I think as to what plan to implement and the likelihood of getting Neutral support in the area.
Bigger fish to fry… 
From what’s said this is something extra beyond the semi-random +10 bonus to a stat every nation gets in a standard game. Is it something specific to grudge match, or 1 to 1’s or something?