Is there a good source of information that explains when an army enters a hex and whether it intercepts someone there etc?
Assume everyone fed for arguments sake…
Army A in a plains hex attempting to enter a mountain hex while enemy army B is marching through a plains hex and then into Army A’s initial hex. Do they catch Army A before climbing?
If there are some nuances here that you’d be kind enough to point out it would be greatly appreciated.
Army A attempts to enter a rough hex next to it (5 pts) but CAV Army B moves through the rough hex with it’s 1st movement point and proceeds on down the road with it’s other movement points. Would A intercept B? At what point WOULD A intercept B in terms of B’s movement points etc?
Armies move into the adjacent hex on the first of their movement points and then spend all of the necessarry movement points in that hex before moving on to the next hex (assuming they still have enough movement points to complete movement into that hex).
So in your first example the A army would already be in the mountain hex and would not get caught. If they were without food however they would not be able (not enough movement points) to enter and would get caught.
In your second example both armies would stop eachother because both would be in the hex on movement point 1. If the A army would “home” one movement point and the B army would be moving along a road and be fed they would be moving through the hex for just one movement point so they would have moved through before the A army moves into the hex on movement point 2.
Or to put it in short. You enter the hex on “impulse” 1 and then spend the remaining required movement “impulses” moving through that hex. So you vacate your old hex the movement “impulse” you enter a new hex regardless of how many “impulses” it takes to move through that hex.
And if army B is entering the hex on the same “impulse” army A is leaving it, it’s a coin toss as to who moves first (A out of hex or B into hex) and thus a coin toss as to whether the two armies get caught.
Just like if you had army A trying to move into the hex army B is in, and army B trying to prevent that by blocking army A out by moving into the hex that army A is in. It becomes a coin toss to see who moves first and who gets into who’s hex.
I think force march gives you an advantage, but I don’t know for sure. I think that the army that force marches would win the who moves first contest against an army that just moves army. But if they are both force marching it goes to the old 50/50 coin flip. But again I just think that is the way it should be, and I don’t know for sure if it is.
I was struggling with how you could be in a hex without sufficient movement to actually enter it…but understand now that they check for that.
It also seems that they must do each movement point on a nation by nation basis in order to check for these things? Or each movement point simultaneously? This is at odds with what someone posted earlier about possibly being able to intercept someone on the way out of a hex? Or maybe this is the “coin flip” aspect of turn order processing. Hmmm…that makes sense as this is how they do most everything else.
VEO I don’t think I have ever heard of a case where an army leaving a hex has ever been pinned by an army entering it unless two armies are trying to pin each other in which case one of them must stop the other. Do you have any examples of this, I would be very interested to see them. (What troop types, fed/unfed, forced /normal movement etc)
The first segment is simultaneous, after that it is random.
Example:
Both armies are fed HI
Army A is at 3430
Army B is at 3330
Both armies move east.
Army A moves to 3530 and is in the hex on segments 1-3
Army B moves to 3430 and is in the hex on segments 1-3
Both armies try to move east again.
If army A gets initiative it moves to 3630 on segments 4 though 6.
If army B gets initiative ii moves to 3530 and on segment 4 and STOPS army A from taking its 4th movement segment. They are both stopped at 3530.
Force marching or moving evasively does not affect the first segment of movement
Ask your team Herman, I’d expect they’d have significant experience here. Why save examples of game mechanics that are known and understood? Like one can threaten with a Navy, the pdf is long gone… Do you have an example of movement (both pdf’s on both sides) that disproves this?
The only real cloudy issue is the Force March and whether giving the 860 provides for a “jump start”, early risers and all. I have a fuzzy recollection that the 2 extra movement impulses are Added at the End for the 860 order, so all nations start at impulse 1 together, but out of superstition, usually enter the 860 whenever this situation arises anyway. 99% likely only hurting my morale to no good effect. Troop type has no role, that’s already covered in how long it takes to cross a hex, not who moves “faster” on impulse 1.
You have the freedom to choose Not to believe this because it hasn’t been proven, or choose to believe we know enough of what we’re talking about and utilize this information (keep a healthy dose of doubt in mind, as always, nobody here is typing from the source code of the program, remember…)
Herman,
This is what Harlekin says about the matter, under the link Game Rulings:
"850, 860 Movement
Whenever you have two armies in adjacent hexes both trying to move, the computer decides randomly which army gets to move first. Then the army spends the first of their movement points to enter the next hex (and block any other armies found in that hex at that point – the only things that could affect this are being overrun or pushed past)
The rest of the movement points for the hex are used up crossing the hex and then the armies move onward using any remaining movement points."
So they seem to agree with Brad, but I also looked through a lot of pdf’s and couldnt find any examples on a army beeing pinned in a hex its leaving on the first impulse, unless moving directly into an enemy army.
Cheers,
Skage
I totally agree with the adjacent hex scenario as someone has to get the drop on the other or they simply march past each other into the the hexes the opposition ocupied. I was of the understanding all other movement was simultaneous and have personaly never seen or ever heard of an army pining another army unless they are in the same hex on the same impulse. The example given, to my limited understanding would be that the troops entering 3530 would see the enemy troops leaving 3530 for 3630 and not pin them unless the 3530 force was unfed, then it would take 4 impulses to march through 3530 leaving it with one impulse to go to clear the hex as the 3430 force enteres 3530 thereby pining it before it can vacate the hex. (let’s assume the hexes are plains and not mountains or the whole argument would be mute) I’m probably wrong and would love to see concrete proof of the matter, mind you that would involve both sides pdf’s being available.
The first segment of movement is simultaneous so you will never catch an army on the first segment unless both armies are moving directly at each other. After the first segment army initiative is random so you can catch an army on segment 2+ thus stopping its movement.
Looking at Dr Moriarti’s quote from the game rulings the only time a random order for movement is given is when they are adjacent and trying to move into each others hex. If as you say it’s all random, why is the first impulse different and why then do they need to “Randomize” the movement for armies adjacent to each other. If it was already random then there would be no need to mention this?
Ok let’s assume you have it correctly, is the random order kept for the entire turn or does it reset at the end of each impulse?
The more I look into this the more I think you guys just might have it wrong.
I seem to recall reading that the first day of movement is handled differently so that two Armies who stopped in the same hex but have no intention of continuing to impede each others’ movements may gracefully depart the hex.
I also seem to recall the source was authoritative – like one of the original authors of the game or something.
In any regard, it makes sense for things like a Neutral Army bumping into a pre-aligned Nation’s Army, and neither of them mean to do battle. The first day of movement is handled specially so they can, if they move in different directions, move without fear of catching on each other.
However, if they both do “Home” first and then move, they are no longer on Day 1 and they will impede each other on Day 2.
Afterwards, it’s random, because that’s how MEPBM works unless they have a reason not to (such as first-day movement or the sequencing of Personal Challenges).
My personal theory is that MovArmy starts on Day 2 and ends on Day 13, whereas ForcMar starts on Day 1 and ends on Day 14. The idea being that normally-moving Armies spend a day packing up camp and a day setting up camp, one on each end of the movement spectrum.
Would be fun to test that sometime by rigging movements with a friendly Neutral designed to differentiate between Day 1 and Day 2 movement.
