Auto-input and Turn checker program

mepbmlist
#1

Hello all

We're working on the 1st and 2nd phase of the program - anything that you
would like to see in it? This will cover checking of order format, checking
of distance moves (maybe army moves fed and unfed?) double skill checks and
other illegal orders. At our end it might have an improved SS turn service?
Ie if you miss the turn we put in a turn for you automatically created.

So with that in mind I have some ideas what we can do and what can't be
done, but please feel free to chuck ideas at me here. (I want to hear from
you what you want here). Now is the time to do it - changing the program
later might not be as possible - and will certainly be more expensive for
us. Any and all help appreciated.

Thanks

Clint

···

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#2

Four suggestions from me (based on some of my own mistakes :slight_smile:

* Check that NatTran order is not used in an attempt to transfer
goods to other nations PC

* Check that capital orders are issued from a character in the
capital when the orders executes (some orders come into play _after_
movement)

* Check if a company or army commander tries to use MovChar

* Don't disallow any orders unless completely wrong. Just warn since
sometimes you might want to issue seemingly strange orders because
you are betting on external events to make them meaningful

/Johan

#3

To be attractive to players it needs to be useful. It will need to be able
to receive a file with the character names and positions set up ready for
us to input the orders. That means I guess that the main game program
would have to output such a file along with the turn sheet.

There is already an order checking program in circulation. I don't use it,
nor do most. This I think is because you have to manually enter all your
characters names and positions (and classes?) first. Too much bother,
and another source of error (entering the wrong hex for your character).

At the moment I cut n paste the end of the pdf turnsheet into my orders
e-mail. I delete the _______ lines. No chance for transcribing errors,
such as wrong hexes, including hostages, or failing to include new
characters. Then the draft orders are sent to the team, for mutual error
checking.

So to impress me, your program needs to be _more_ efficient and
_less_ time consuming than that, and I will still want the facility to
generate draft orders to bounce around the team before submitting
formally to you.

Good luck in your programming endeavours.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

···

Middle Earth PBM Games <me@MiddleEarthGames.com> wrote

We're working on the 1st and 2nd phase of the program - anything that you
would like to see in it? This will cover checking of order format, checking
of distance moves (maybe army moves fed and unfed?) double skill checks and
other illegal orders. At our end it might have an improved SS turn service?
Ie if you miss the turn we put in a turn for you automatically created.

So with that in mind I have some ideas what we can do and what can't be
done, but please feel free to chuck ideas at me here. (I want to hear from
you what you want here). Now is the time to do it - changing the program
later might not be as possible - and will certainly be more expensive for
us. Any and all help appreciated.

#4

Sometimes you want to give this order
- if your army may or may not be destroyed in a battle, you want to give
an order which will move the commander in the former case
- if your company is breaking up, and the CoComm wants to do say an
agent order, and try to move independently. It works if the MovChar
orders of his members are processed first.

However these are unusual circumstances. The error checking facility
therefore needs to _alert_ you to possible mistakes such as these rather
than disallow their input.

Regards,

Laurence G. Tilley http://www.lgtilley.freeserve.co.uk/

···

Imrazor@Genesis <johan.nilson@mailbox.swipnet.se> wrote

* Check if a company or army commander tries to use MovChar

#5

Some of these might be pretty tall orders, as I'm not sure how extensive a program
you're planning...

1. Front End Program: Will the program be a front end that can automatically access
the turn results file you send out and let you view/change/submit your turn from
within the program? (ie; Without having to re-type any info from your turn results
into the program.) In other words, will the end result be that you send out a turn
results file that is simply loaded into the front end program on our end, and the
front end program will generate a file attachment to send back to you for submitting
orders.

2. Setup: Would the program also have the abilitiy to do a FA1000 nation setup?

3. Character Portraits: Would the program have an updateable list of character
portraits which you could use to assign your characters specific portraits when you
name them? It would also be cool if the list of portraits were in a separate folder so
you could add your own portraits, which would be automatically uploaded when the turn
was submitted. (Then Harlequin gets additional portraits that could be available to
everyone else.)

4. Character Names: Could the Name Character orders be adjusted such that when you
name a new character, you could specify 2 or 3 alternate names, should the first be
unavailable?

5. Special Service: Would it be possible for the Player to specify generic SS turn
orders for their characters, (at the beginning of the game), based on skills? (ie;
Have commanders give these orders, have emmys give these orders if they're at my PC,
or these orders if they're not at my PC, etc..). It would also be good if this could
be altered during the game.

6. Map: Will the program have an updateable (whole middle-earth) map that
automatically updates PC info (in the area of your nation map, plus scout/recons)? It
would also be nice if it let you update portions of the map not visible to you (based
on team input), and let you share the map with teammates.

  Like I said, many of these are likely pipe dreams. Still, you did ask. :wink:

Mike Mulka

#6

1. Front End Program: Will the program be a front end that can

automatically access

the turn results file you send out and let you view/change/submit your

turn from

within the program? (ie; Without having to re-type any info from your turn

results

into the program.) In other words, will the end result be that you send

out a turn

results file that is simply loaded into the front end program on our end,

and the

front end program will generate a file attachment to send back to you for

submitting

orders.

Simply put yes. More than this though - for those who have played Legends
using LPE that is the sort of thing we are aiming at.

2. Setup: Would the program also have the abilitiy to do a FA1000 nation

setup?

Yes

3. Character Portraits: Would the program have an updateable list of

character

portraits which you could use to assign your characters specific portraits

when you

name them? It would also be cool if the list of portraits were in a

separate folder so

you could add your own portraits, which would be automatically uploaded

when the turn

was submitted. (Then Harlequin gets additional portraits that could be

available to

everyone else.)

Maybe - in the final version we could do this sort of thing. It would be in
colour with a nice colour map.

4. Character Names: Could the Name Character orders be adjusted such that

when you

name a new character, you could specify 2 or 3 alternate names, should the

first be

unavailable?

Unilkely

5. Special Service: Would it be possible for the Player to specify generic

SS turn

orders for their characters, (at the beginning of the game), based on

skills? (ie;

Have commanders give these orders, have emmys give these orders if they're

at my PC,

or these orders if they're not at my PC, etc..). It would also be good if

this could

be altered during the game.

Yes - sounds a great idea. We would create a generic SS turn for everyone
that would run but if you put this in then yours would be used in
preference.

6. Map: Will the program have an updateable (whole middle-earth) map that
automatically updates PC info (in the area of your nation map, plus

scout/recons)?
*** Yes - a sort of point and click for information.

It
would also be nice if it let you update portions of the map not visible to

you (based

on team input), and let you share the map with teammates.

Yes - you would be able to export and import data. Delete information then
export if you wanted to send only certain data I would guess. Importing
players turns wholesale as well.

Like I said, many of these are likely pipe dreams. Still, you did ask. :wink:

Not such a dream - we want something that works to start with and then build
up from there into something nice to look at and then add in extra bits as
time goes on. I want to bring the game into the 90s then the 00s. :slight_smile:

···

Mike Mulka

#7

* Check that NatTran order is not used in an attempt to transfer
goods to other nations PC

Could do for checking at the Start of the turn if the PCs were correct in
the turn. You would be able to over-write this then if you decided that the
information is incorrect. This would be later on though as it would need
information on PCs belonging to your team and to the other team which would
be easy enough to program but probably better for the full version.

* Check that capital orders are issued from a character in the
capital when the orders executes (some orders come into play _after_
movement)

Same again - I guess that if you designate which is a capital that would be
the short version.

* Check if a company or army commander tries to use MovChar

Doubt this in the 1st version but later yes.

* Don't disallow any orders unless completely wrong. Just warn since
sometimes you might want to issue seemingly strange orders because
you are betting on external events to make them meaningful

Yes. The player would always be able to force through orders.

···

/Johan

#8

To be attractive to players it needs to be useful. It will need to be

able

to receive a file with the character names and positions set up ready for
us to input the orders. That means I guess that the main game program
would have to output such a file along with the turn sheet.

3rd stage thing. We're aiming more ambitiously than that - for the 1st
stage you will be able to either cut and paste or enter your own character
names and go from there. I just want somethign that works to start with and
then upgrade it with use.

There is already an order checking program in circulation. I don't use

it,

nor do most. This I think is because you have to manually enter all your
characters names and positions (and classes?) first. Too much bother,
and another source of error (entering the wrong hex for your character).

As a first stage we'll replicate this (we have something 90% done at
present). The 2nd stage will bring in the auto-input and then the 3rd stage
will be the Front end that will do what you ask above. Read in your
Resultsheet and update the Turnsheet correctly.

At the moment I cut n paste the end of the pdf turnsheet into my orders
e-mail. I delete the _______ lines. No chance for transcribing errors,
such as wrong hexes, including hostages, or failing to include new
characters. Then the draft orders are sent to the team, for mutual error
checking.

Yes - works nicely.

So to impress me, your program needs to be _more_ efficient and
_less_ time consuming than that, and I will still want the facility to
generate draft orders to bounce around the team before submitting
formally to you.

Yes - not to start with but as it goes on we'll do this. For us the major
aim is to get the 1st 2 stages done - the 2nd will free up time and
development for us, then we can get the 3rd stage ready. What else would
you like to see in that?

Ta

Clint

#9

However these are unusual circumstances. The error checking facility
therefore needs to _alert_ you to possible mistakes such as these rather
than disallow their input.

That's the plan.

Clint

#10

Clint,

I am curious. Will it be web-based (HTML/Javascript?), a Java executable, or
something else ?

Eric

#11

Aaruman wrote:

1. Front End Program: Will the program be a front end that can automatically
access
the turn results file you send out and let you view/change/submit your turn
from
within the program? (ie; Without having to re-type any info from your turn
results
into the program.) In other words, will the end result be that you send out a
turn
results file that is simply loaded into the front end program on our end, and
the
front end program will generate a file attachment to send back to you for
submitting
orders.

Of course, the main feature is it has to be cross-platform, guys. Do not
exclude us Mac users! Therefore, I would suggest using Perl with an HTML
front end.

Hey, you did ask. :slight_smile:

Gavin
(getting back into circulation after three months)

#12

Nice to have you back. It's a long haul to get anything done so I hope that
when it is finished we have something that works with everything but I
cannot guarantee that.

1) We're not made of money - we're hoping that this does not push us back
onto the poverty line.

2) We have a program that works the accounts now programmed in Delphi. The
1st stage of the other is in Delphi as well - the aim being that if we write
it in the same code we can almagamate them into one sheet that is uptodate
and relevant each time you get it! :wink: farfetched and hopeful as always.

3) We're not planning to make it compatible with Macs as a major selling
point I am afraid. I'll chat to the programmer and see what he has to say
on the subject. If it's going to delay the project then I don't think I
will go with it - due to the extra work and time - we have Christmas as our
deadline and I don't think we'll make it as it stands.

Clint

···

Of course, the main feature is it has to be cross-platform, guys. Do not
exclude us Mac users! Therefore, I would suggest using Perl with an HTML
front end.

#13

A stand alone program GUI (Generic User Interface) that you put on your
machine. US gets free internet service but the rest of the world does not.

Clint

Clint,

I am curious. Will it be web-based (HTML/Javascript?), a Java executable,

or

···

something else ?

Eric

#14

A stand alone program GUI (Generic User Interface) that you put on your
machine.

Okay, but what's it written in ? Java ? C++ ? TCL ?

US gets free internet service but the rest of the world does not.

Free Internet Service ? Not me !

Eric

#15

Hey ya'll,

I've been trying with the map program on me_map group page which is
pretty much ramrodded by Jeremy Richmond. Their concept sounds
pretty much like what your talking about. The problem with their
program is that you have to have so much stuff on your computer even
to get it to work (which I haven't yet). I would love to see the
final product, especially what you're talking about phase 3.

By the way Clint, I'm in the US and I don't get free internet service.

Scott

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@M...> wrote:

A stand alone program GUI (Generic User Interface) that you put on

your

machine. US gets free internet service but the rest of the world

does not.

Clint

> Clint,
>
> I am curious. Will it be web-based (HTML/Javascript?), a Java

executable,

···

or
> something else ?
>
> Eric

#16

Delphi

···

Okay, but what's it written in ? Java ? C++ ? TCL ?

#17

Middle Earth PBM Games wrote:

Nice to have you back.

Ta!

2) We have a program that works the accounts now programmed in Delphi.

Not familiar with that one.

3) We're not planning to make it compatible with Macs as a major selling
point I am afraid. I'll chat to the programmer and see what he has to say
on the subject. If it's going to delay the project then I don't think I
will go with it - due to the extra work and time -

I'll forgive you if you can't do it. :slight_smile: Actually, Mac compatability would
be a plus which you could include in your advertising. You might actually
get extra players. (Of course, if you don't have the money to pay for it,
then the point is moot.)

we have Christmas as our
deadline and I don't think we'll make it as it stands.

So, it'll ship in April then. That's the usual experience with project
deadlines aimed at Christmas. :slight_smile:

Gavin

#18

No the deadline originally was now but Christmas will be fine. We want
something working by Christmas though for obvious reasons.

Clint

···

So, it'll ship in April then. That's the usual experience with project
deadlines aimed at Christmas. :slight_smile:

Gavin

#19

Yes a lot like it. :slight_smile:

Clint

···

I've been trying with the map program on me_map group page which is
pretty much ramrodded by Jeremy Richmond. Their concept sounds
pretty much like what your talking about. The problem with their
program is that you have to have so much stuff on your computer even
to get it to work (which I haven't yet). I would love to see the
final product, especially what you're talking about phase 3.

#20

Delphi

Okay, but what's it written in ? Java ? C++ ? TCL ?

:wink:

There went Mac compatability. I think Clint secretly has a grudge against
us mac users. And I think Stuart's response is "Ooohhh... strange to
touch!" It all strikes me as people who have no experience with something
and not wanting to because it's strange.

No offense guys, but in totallity there are about 15% of the world using
non-M$ software. Might seem like only a little, but a large portion of
this is the academic world who are often the most avid gamers.

Coding in Delphi is platform specific. Hire someone who could do it in
Java or better yet C++. That way it could be ported very easily to other
platforms with minimal of effort. I think Clint just doesn't want to
admit Stuart doesn't remember anything but Pascal from college.

But like I said, Clint has it in for Macs. I think it's 'cause he has to
use one for MEPBM (remember that's where MEPBM is encoded). On that he's
got to use pre-Power PC computers (old Gil stuff!) and I can't blame him
if it causes distaste.

But Clint's been infected by the touch of the Almighty Mac and he feels
dirty.

Well... if at a worst case, please remember to have the frontend
program's data be available text. For example like the LPE for legends
(except in text!) so some mac programmer could actually write something
to use it... assuming you guys don't support us. Bet we can make
something nicer too... Delphi programs look as pretty as your big toe.

Morph