DGE meets Harlequin

mepbmlist
#1

This sounds great! I wish... :slight_smile: We could do it in FA with some standard
nations - some emulating the DS that are in the game in 1650 already and
then some extra ones.

1650 though we could not as yet.

Clint

Message text written by INTERNET:mepbmlist@egroups.com

How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
Out of 25 players in a game:

1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations

2) Same for the 10 FP

3) Maybe even the same for the 5 Neutrals

Might be able to fill games alot faster, just a thought.

Paul the Snail Mailer

<

#2

How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
Out of 25 players in a game:

1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations

2) Same for the 10 FP

Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits!
:slight_smile:
The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians could be
split
out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria in
2950, the
Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if Radagast had
any
followers in the east?

I think this is a great idea, but not for all games. People will still
want
the good old original (I personally hate when PBM companies listen far
too
much to players and add all sorts of ridiculous stuff that eventually
destroys
the game, which happened to my first game of PBM, Quest). With all the
ME
knowledge on this list we could come up with at least ten more nations
for
each side.

/Pontus

#3

> How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> Out of 25 players in a game:
>
> 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
>
> 2) Same for the 10 FP

Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits!
:slight_smile:

RD: Oh you sad person (g)!

The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians could be
split
out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria in
2950, the
Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if Radagast had
any
followers in the east?

RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the Corsairs before
1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no followers except
birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.

In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and commanded by the
Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!

If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted onto FA.
I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.

I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who have read
Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war was the
'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the Noldor and
Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at Dagorlad
and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad and
Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur son of
Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for weregild.
Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which is where
The Hobbit and LoR start.

For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve the 'historical'
result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power, which
would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape. Any other
result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be a 'race'
element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so they
would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength from a
smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.

The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-galad, Elendil
and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who wants to
play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more familiar
ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be fairly
familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and Dwarves. The
nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South Kingdoms of FA
are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black Numenoreans would be
there too. Which is where I came in.

If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I will
finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so before because
we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no point trying
to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the influx of
North American players who knows?

Let me know.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@gustavsson.net>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

#4

> Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits!
> :slight_smile:

RD: Oh you sad person (g)!

He he... And Gandalf could be the leader! :slight_smile:

> The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians could be
> split
> out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria in
> 2950, the
> Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if Radagast had
> any
> followers in the east?

RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the Corsairs before
1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no followers except
birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.

Yes, I know, but I'm sure they weren't all living like one big family down there
in Umbar. They were probably seen as one nation of corsairs from the outside,
but I still imagine them keeping their old traditions and following their own
leaders, like different tribes of one nation. The story is Radagast wandered
alone with his birds, but perhaps he still had friends in the forest, who could
function as nation leaders? But I have to admit, I would hate to see the game
where Radagast challenges Barad-D�r in command of 10000 HC. The nations above
are the ones I thought of right away, but you could come up with a lot more.
More or less historically realistic though.

In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and commanded by the
Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!

Yes, if you can play Saruman, why not the Balrog?

If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted onto FA.
I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.

No, it would have to be the FA. 1650/2950 can theoretically be changed (If I've
understood Clint correctly), but FA is the perfect platform for these
experiments.

/Pontus

#5

Hi,
   Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on & let
someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!

Ian Harris

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...>
wrote:

From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

> > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > Out of 25 players in a game:
> >
> > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> >
> > 2) Same for the 10 FP
>
> Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the

hobbits!

> :slight_smile:

RD: Oh you sad person (g)!

> The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians

could be

> split
> out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria

in

> 2950, the
> Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if

Radagast had

> any
> followers in the east?

RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the

Corsairs before

1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no

followers except

birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.

In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and

commanded by the

Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!

If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted

onto FA.

I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.

I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who

have read

Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war

was the

'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the

Noldor and

Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at

Dagorlad

and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad

and

Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur son

of

Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for

weregild.

Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which

is where

The Hobbit and LoR start.

For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve

the 'historical'

result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,

which

would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.

Any other

result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be

a 'race'

element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so

they

would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength

from a

smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.

The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-

galad, Elendil

and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who

wants to

play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more

familiar

ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be fairly
familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and

Dwarves. The

nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South

Kingdoms of FA

are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black Numenoreans

would be

there too. Which is where I came in.

If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I

will

finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so

before because

we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no

point trying

to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the

influx of

···

----- Original Message -----
North American players who knows?

Let me know.

Richard.

#6

Hi,
   Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on & let
someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!

Ian Harris

Thanks Ian - that's one! Need a few more though before I take it any
further.

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@eds.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 1:57 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...>
wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
>
>
> > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > >
> > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > >
> > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> >
> > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the
hobbits!
> > :slight_smile:
>
> RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
>
> > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians
could be
> > split
> > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria
in
> > 2950, the
> > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
Radagast had
> > any
> > followers in the east?
>
> RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
Corsairs before
> 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
followers except
> birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
>
> In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
commanded by the
> Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
>
> If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted
onto FA.
> I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
>
> I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who
have read
> Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war
was the
> 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
Noldor and
> Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at
Dagorlad
> and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad
and
> Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur son
of
> Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
weregild.
> Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which
is where
> The Hobbit and LoR start.
>
> For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
the 'historical'
> result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,
which
> would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.
Any other
> result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be
a 'race'
> element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so
they
> would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength
from a
> smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
>
> The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
galad, Elendil
> and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
wants to
> play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more
familiar
> ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be fairly
> familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
Dwarves. The
> nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
Kingdoms of FA
> are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black Numenoreans
would be
> there too. Which is where I came in.
>
> If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I
will
> finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
before because
> we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
point trying
> to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the
influx of
> North American players who knows?
>
> Let me know.
>
> Richard.

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

#7

If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I will
finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so before

because

we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no point

trying

to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the influx of
North American players who knows?

Yes please Richard

Regards

Mike

#8

What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
_starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
of the FA artifacts anyway.)

Jeremy

Hi,
   Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &

let

someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!

Ian Harris

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"

<devereux@l...>

wrote:
>
> From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
>
>
> > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > >
> > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > >
> > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> >
> > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the
hobbits!
> > :slight_smile:
>
> RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
>
> > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians
could be
> > split
> > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in

Moria

in
> > 2950, the
> > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
Radagast had
> > any
> > followers in the east?
>
> RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
Corsairs before
> 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
followers except
> birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
>
> In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
commanded by the
> Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
>
> If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be

grafted

onto FA.
> I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
>
> I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who
have read
> Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war
was the
> 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
Noldor and
> Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at
Dagorlad
> and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad
and
> Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur

son

of
> Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
weregild.
> Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which
is where
> The Hobbit and LoR start.
>
> For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
the 'historical'
> result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,
which
> would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.
Any other
> result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be
a 'race'
> element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so
they
> would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength
from a
> smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
>
> The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
galad, Elendil
> and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
wants to
> play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more
familiar
> ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be

fairly

> familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
Dwarves. The
> nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
Kingdoms of FA
> are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black

Numenoreans

···

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
would be
> there too. Which is where I came in.
>
> If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I
will
> finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
before because
> we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
point trying
> to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the
influx of
> North American players who knows?
>
> Let me know.
>
> Richard.

#9

Sounds great Richard!

Clint

···

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@eds.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 1:57 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

Hi,
   Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on & let
someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!

Ian Harris

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...>
wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
>
>
> > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > >
> > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > >
> > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> >
> > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the
hobbits!
> > :slight_smile:
>
> RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
>
> > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians
could be
> > split
> > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria
in
> > 2950, the
> > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
Radagast had
> > any
> > followers in the east?
>
> RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
Corsairs before
> 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
followers except
> birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
>
> In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
commanded by the
> Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
>
> If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted
onto FA.
> I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
>
> I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who
have read
> Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war
was the
> 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
Noldor and
> Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at
Dagorlad
> and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad
and
> Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur son
of
> Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
weregild.
> Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which
is where
> The Hobbit and LoR start.
>
> For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
the 'historical'
> result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,
which
> would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.
Any other
> result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be
a 'race'
> element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so
they
> would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength
from a
> smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
>
> The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
galad, Elendil
> and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
wants to
> play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more
familiar
> ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be fairly
> familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
Dwarves. The
> nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
Kingdoms of FA
> are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black Numenoreans
would be
> there too. Which is where I came in.
>
> If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I
will
> finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
before because
> we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
point trying
> to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the
influx of
> North American players who knows?
>
> Let me know.
>
> Richard.

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

#10

Hi,
   Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would be
a little silly!
   Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to kill
Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
Dark Lord _too_ easy!
   Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
controlled by the One Ring.
   Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
pre-aligned?

Ian Harris

What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
_starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
of the FA artifacts anyway.)

Jeremy

> Hi,
> Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me

know

> if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &
let
> someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which

point

> we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
>
> Ian Harris
>
> --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
<devereux@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> >
> >
> > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > >
> > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > >
> > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > >
> > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play

the

> hobbits!
> > > :slight_smile:
> >
> > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> >
> > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black

Numenorians

> could be
> > > split
> > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
Moria
> in
> > > 2950, the
> > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> Radagast had
> > > any
> > > followers in the east?
> >
> > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> Corsairs before
> > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> followers except
> > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> >
> > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> commanded by the
> > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> >
> > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
grafted
> onto FA.
> > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> >
> > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you

who

> have read
> > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This

war

> was the
> > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> Noldor and
> > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle

at

> Dagorlad
> > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-

galad

> and
> > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur
son
> of
> > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> weregild.
> > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.

Which

> is where
> > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> >
> > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> the 'historical'
> > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's

power,

> which
> > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical

shape.

> Any other
> > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would

be

> a 'race'
> > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw,

so

> they
> > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his

strength

> from a
> > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> >
> > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> galad, Elendil
> > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> wants to
> > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some

more

> familiar
> > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
fairly
> > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> Dwarves. The
> > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> Kingdoms of FA
> > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
Numenoreans
> would be
> > there too. Which is where I came in.
> >
> > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that

number) I

> will
> > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> before because
> > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> point trying
> > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with

the

···

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> influx of
> > North American players who knows?
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > Richard.

#11

What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
_starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
of the FA artifacts anyway.)

Jeremy

RD: Quite right - another reason why FA is suitable to graft the Last
Alliance game onto. Sauron would be considered to be carrying the One Ring,
and empowered accordingly, unless/until the FP succeed in either slaying him
or destroying Barad-dur.

Regards,

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <JeremyRichman@compuserve.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 1:09 AM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:
> Hi,
> Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
> if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &
let
> someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
> we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
>
> Ian Harris
>
> --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
<devereux@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> >
> >
> > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > >
> > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > >
> > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > >
> > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the
> hobbits!
> > > :slight_smile:
> >
> > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> >
> > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians
> could be
> > > split
> > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
Moria
> in
> > > 2950, the
> > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> Radagast had
> > > any
> > > followers in the east?
> >
> > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> Corsairs before
> > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> followers except
> > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> >
> > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> commanded by the
> > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> >
> > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
grafted
> onto FA.
> > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> >
> > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who
> have read
> > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war
> was the
> > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> Noldor and
> > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at
> Dagorlad
> > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad
> and
> > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur
son
> of
> > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> weregild.
> > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which
> is where
> > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> >
> > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> the 'historical'
> > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,
> which
> > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.
> Any other
> > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be
> a 'race'
> > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so
> they
> > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength
> from a
> > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> >
> > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> galad, Elendil
> > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> wants to
> > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more
> familiar
> > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
fairly
> > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> Dwarves. The
> > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> Kingdoms of FA
> > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
Numenoreans
> would be
> > there too. Which is where I came in.
> >
> > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I
> will
> > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> before because
> > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> point trying
> > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the
> influx of
> > North American players who knows?
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > Richard.

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm

#12

Sounds great Richard!

Clint

RD: Why thank you! All we need now is enough players, say 20, to express
interest, and I'll get down to it. I'm happy to put the work in but I have
to be realistic - if we don't get that number, it's never going to get off
the ground, so no point me doing the work. I know you at Harlequin will say
exactly the same! Got 4 names so far but it's early days yet.

Regards,

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harlequin Games" <pbm@harlequingames.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

> Hi,
> Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
> if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on & let
> someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
> we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
>
> Ian Harris
>
> --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...>
> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> >
> >
> > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > >
> > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > >
> > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > >
> > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the
> hobbits!
> > > :slight_smile:
> >
> > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> >
> > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians
> could be
> > > split
> > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria
> in
> > > 2950, the
> > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> Radagast had
> > > any
> > > followers in the east?
> >
> > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> Corsairs before
> > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> followers except
> > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> >
> > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> commanded by the
> > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> >
> > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted
> onto FA.
> > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> >
> > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who
> have read
> > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war
> was the
> > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> Noldor and
> > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at
> Dagorlad
> > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad
> and
> > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur son
> of
> > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> weregild.
> > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which
> is where
> > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> >
> > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> the 'historical'
> > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,
> which
> > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.
> Any other
> > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be
> a 'race'
> > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so
> they
> > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength
> from a
> > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> >
> > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> galad, Elendil
> > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> wants to
> > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more
> familiar
> > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be fairly
> > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> Dwarves. The
> > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> Kingdoms of FA
> > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black Numenoreans
> would be
> > there too. Which is where I came in.
> >
> > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I
> will
> > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> before because
> > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> point trying
> > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the
> influx of
> > North American players who knows?
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > Richard.
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
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#13

RD:
1) Sauron's mage rank would reflect his possession of the One Ring, and he
will have other artifacts too. He is the most powerful character in the
scenario, by some distance!
2) Getting Curses is never easy, and it's far more difficult in FA. I
visualise the FP armies trying to batter their way through the DS defences
to Barad-dur rather than hunt Sauron down. Ideally, Sauron will then have
to put in a personal appearance to save his capital!
3) I think I'm right in saying the Elven rings don't come into the FA
scenario (went into the West with the Elves at the end of the WotR) - can
Harlequin confirm? So no M50 arts for the FP, which enables some distance
to be put between their top mages & Sauron.
4) All nations pre-aligned, 3 ex-neutrals to DS, 2 ex-neutrals to FP. After
all, you could hardly have the Black Numenoreans turning FP!

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@eds.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:18 PM
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

Hi,
   Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would be
a little silly!
   Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to kill
Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
Dark Lord _too_ easy!
   Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
controlled by the One Ring.
   Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
pre-aligned?

Ian Harris

#14

Try the DGE list? Facade Board?

Clint

···

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@lineone.net>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harlequin Games" <pbm@harlequingames.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

> Sounds great Richard!
>
> Clint
>

RD: Why thank you! All we need now is enough players, say 20, to express
interest, and I'll get down to it. I'm happy to put the work in but I

have

to be realistic - if we don't get that number, it's never going to get off
the ground, so no point me doing the work. I know you at Harlequin will

say

exactly the same! Got 4 names so far but it's early days yet.

Regards,

Richard.
> > Hi,
> > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me know
> > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on & let
> > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which point
> > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> >
> > Ian Harris
> >
> > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > >
> > >
> > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play the
> > hobbits!
> > > > :slight_smile:
> > >
> > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > >
> > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black Numenorians
> > could be
> > > > split
> > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in Moria
> > in
> > > > 2950, the
> > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > Radagast had
> > > > any
> > > > followers in the east?
> > >
> > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > Corsairs before
> > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > followers except
> > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > >
> > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > commanded by the
> > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > >
> > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be grafted
> > onto FA.
> > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> > >
> > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you who
> > have read
> > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This war
> > was the
> > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> > Noldor and
> > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle at
> > Dagorlad
> > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-galad
> > and
> > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur son

> > of
> > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> > weregild.
> > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost. Which
> > is where
> > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > >
> > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > the 'historical'
> > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's power,
> > which
> > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical shape.
> > Any other
> > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would be
> > a 'race'
> > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw, so
> > they
> > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his strength
> > from a
> > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> > >
> > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> > galad, Elendil
> > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> > wants to
> > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some more
> > familiar
> > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be fairly
> > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> > Dwarves. The
> > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> > Kingdoms of FA
> > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black Numenoreans
> > would be
> > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > >
> > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that number) I
> > will
> > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> > before because
> > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> > point trying
> > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with the
> > influx of
> > > North American players who knows?
> > >
> > > Let me know.
> > >
> > > Richard.
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> >
> >
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>
>

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
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#15

I'd be interested in playing.

How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive spells?

···

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@eds.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

Hi,
   Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would be
a little silly!
   Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to kill
Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
Dark Lord _too_ easy!
   Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
controlled by the One Ring.
   Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
pre-aligned?

Ian Harris

--- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> of the FA artifacts anyway.)
>
> Jeremy
>
> --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me
know
> > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &
> let
> > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which
point
> > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> >
> > Ian Harris
> >
> > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> <devereux@l...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > >
> > >
> > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > >
> > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play
the
> > hobbits!
> > > > :slight_smile:
> > >
> > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > >
> > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black
Numenorians
> > could be
> > > > split
> > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
> Moria
> > in
> > > > 2950, the
> > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > Radagast had
> > > > any
> > > > followers in the east?
> > >
> > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > Corsairs before
> > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > followers except
> > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > >
> > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > commanded by the
> > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > >
> > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
> grafted
> > onto FA.
> > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> > >
> > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you
who
> > have read
> > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This
war
> > was the
> > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> > Noldor and
> > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle
at
> > Dagorlad
> > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-
galad
> > and
> > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur
> son
> > of
> > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> > weregild.
> > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.
Which
> > is where
> > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > >
> > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > the 'historical'
> > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's
power,
> > which
> > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical
shape.
> > Any other
> > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would
be
> > a 'race'
> > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw,
so
> > they
> > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his
strength
> > from a
> > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> > >
> > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> > galad, Elendil
> > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> > wants to
> > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some
more
> > familiar
> > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
> fairly
> > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> > Dwarves. The
> > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> > Kingdoms of FA
> > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
> Numenoreans
> > would be
> > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > >
> > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that
number) I
> > will
> > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> > before because
> > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> > point trying
> > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with
the
> > influx of
> > > North American players who knows?
> > >
> > > Let me know.
> > >
> > > Richard.

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#16

I'd be interested in playing.

How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive spells?

RD: thanks for the interest. I don't think Harlequin would be able to
that - nor, really, would I want to. He's going to be quite powerful enough
and the FP must stand a small chance of killing him!

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "TONY A & JANETTE S" <janton@cwcom.net>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@eds.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin

> Hi,
> Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
> Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
> Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would be
> a little silly!
> Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to kill
> Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
> Dark Lord _too_ easy!
> Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
> available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
> controlled by the One Ring.
> Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
> pre-aligned?
>
> Ian Harris
>
> --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> > What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> > _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> > no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> > to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> > it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> > of the FA artifacts anyway.)
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me
> know
> > > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &
> > let
> > > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which
> point
> > > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> > >
> > > Ian Harris
> > >
> > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> > <devereux@l...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play
> the
> > > hobbits!
> > > > > :slight_smile:
> > > >
> > > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > > >
> > > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black
> Numenorians
> > > could be
> > > > > split
> > > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
> > Moria
> > > in
> > > > > 2950, the
> > > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > > Radagast had
> > > > > any
> > > > > followers in the east?
> > > >
> > > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > > Corsairs before
> > > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > > followers except
> > > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > > >
> > > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > > commanded by the
> > > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > > >
> > > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
> > grafted
> > > onto FA.
> > > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> > > >
> > > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you
> who
> > > have read
> > > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This
> war
> > > was the
> > > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> > > Noldor and
> > > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle
> at
> > > Dagorlad
> > > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-
> galad
> > > and
> > > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur
> > son
> > > of
> > > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> > > weregild.
> > > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.
> Which
> > > is where
> > > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > > >
> > > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > > the 'historical'
> > > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's
> power,
> > > which
> > > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical
> shape.
> > > Any other
> > > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would
> be
> > > a 'race'
> > > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw,
> so
> > > they
> > > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his
> strength
> > > from a
> > > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> > > >
> > > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> > > galad, Elendil
> > > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> > > wants to
> > > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some
> more
> > > familiar
> > > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
> > fairly
> > > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> > > Dwarves. The
> > > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> > > Kingdoms of FA
> > > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
> > Numenoreans
> > > would be
> > > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > > >
> > > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that
> number) I
> > > will
> > > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> > > before because
> > > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> > > point trying
> > > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with
> the
> > > influx of
> > > > North American players who knows?
> > > >
> > > > Let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Richard.
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
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#17

We could house rule it - basically no spells cast on Sauron - and should
Sauron die then no new character with that name allowed.

Clint

From: "TONY A & JANETTE S" <janton@cwcom.net>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario

> I'd be interested in playing.
>
> How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive spells?

RD: thanks for the interest. I don't think Harlequin would be able to
that - nor, really, would I want to. He's going to be quite powerful

enough

···

----- Original Message -----
and the FP must stand a small chance of killing him!

Richard.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@eds.com>
> To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
> Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
>
>
> > Hi,
> > Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
> > Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
> > Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would be
> > a little silly!
> > Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to kill
> > Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
> > Dark Lord _too_ easy!
> > Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
> > available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
> > controlled by the One Ring.
> > Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
> > pre-aligned?
> >
> > Ian Harris
> >
> > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> > > What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> > > _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> > > no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> > > to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> > > it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> > > of the FA artifacts anyway.)
> > >
> > > Jeremy
> > >
> > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me
> > know
> > > > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &
> > > let
> > > > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which
> > point
> > > > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> > > >
> > > > Ian Harris
> > > >
> > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> > > <devereux@l...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play
> > the
> > > > hobbits!
> > > > > > :slight_smile:
> > > > >
> > > > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > > > >
> > > > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black
> > Numenorians
> > > > could be
> > > > > > split
> > > > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
> > > Moria
> > > > in
> > > > > > 2950, the
> > > > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > > > Radagast had
> > > > > > any
> > > > > > followers in the east?
> > > > >
> > > > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > > > Corsairs before
> > > > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > > > followers except
> > > > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > > > >
> > > > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > > > commanded by the
> > > > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
> > > grafted
> > > > onto FA.
> > > > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you
> > who
> > > > have read
> > > > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This
> > war
> > > > was the
> > > > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> > > > Noldor and
> > > > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle
> > at
> > > > Dagorlad
> > > > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-
> > galad
> > > > and
> > > > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur
> > > son
> > > > of
> > > > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> > > > weregild.
> > > > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.
> > Which
> > > > is where
> > > > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > > > the 'historical'
> > > > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's
> > power,
> > > > which
> > > > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical
> > shape.
> > > > Any other
> > > > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would
> > be
> > > > a 'race'
> > > > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw,
> > so
> > > > they
> > > > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his
> > strength
> > > > from a
> > > > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> > > > galad, Elendil
> > > > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> > > > wants to
> > > > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some
> > more
> > > > familiar
> > > > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
> > > fairly
> > > > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> > > > Dwarves. The
> > > > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> > > > Kingdoms of FA
> > > > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
> > > Numenoreans
> > > > would be
> > > > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that
> > number) I
> > > > will
> > > > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> > > > before because
> > > > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> > > > point trying
> > > > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with
> > the
> > > > influx of
> > > > > North American players who knows?
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard.
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> >
> >
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>
>

Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
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#18

Should Sauron Die shouldn't he become the lidless eye in say 10-20 turns and
become a random encounter?

Harlequin Games wrote:

···

We could house rule it - basically no spells cast on Sauron - and should
Sauron die then no new character with that name allowed.

Clint

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TONY A & JANETTE S" <janton@cwcom.net>
> To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario
>
>
> > I'd be interested in playing.
> >
> > How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive spells?
>
> RD: thanks for the interest. I don't think Harlequin would be able to
> that - nor, really, would I want to. He's going to be quite powerful
enough
> and the FP must stand a small chance of killing him!
>
> Richard.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@eds.com>
> > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
> > Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
> > > Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
> > > Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would be
> > > a little silly!
> > > Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to kill
> > > Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
> > > Dark Lord _too_ easy!
> > > Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
> > > available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
> > > controlled by the One Ring.
> > > Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
> > > pre-aligned?
> > >
> > > Ian Harris
> > >
> > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> > > > What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> > > > _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> > > > no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> > > > to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> > > > it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> > > > of the FA artifacts anyway.)
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me
> > > know
> > > > > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on &
> > > > let
> > > > > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which
> > > point
> > > > > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian Harris
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> > > > <devereux@l...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play
> > > the
> > > > > hobbits!
> > > > > > > :slight_smile:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black
> > > Numenorians
> > > > > could be
> > > > > > > split
> > > > > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
> > > > Moria
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > 2950, the
> > > > > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > > > > Radagast had
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > followers in the east?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > > > > Corsairs before
> > > > > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > > > > followers except
> > > > > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > > > > commanded by the
> > > > > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
> > > > grafted
> > > > > onto FA.
> > > > > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in 1650/2950.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you
> > > who
> > > > > have read
> > > > > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This
> > > war
> > > > > was the
> > > > > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> > > > > Noldor and
> > > > > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge battle
> > > at
> > > > > Dagorlad
> > > > > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-
> > > galad
> > > > > and
> > > > > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and Isildur
> > > > son
> > > > > of
> > > > > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> > > > > weregild.
> > > > > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.
> > > Which
> > > > > is where
> > > > > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > > > > the 'historical'
> > > > > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's
> > > power,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical
> > > shape.
> > > > > Any other
> > > > > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would
> > > be
> > > > > a 'race'
> > > > > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the nw,
> > > so
> > > > > they
> > > > > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his
> > > strength
> > > > > from a
> > > > > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> > > > > galad, Elendil
> > > > > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS! Who
> > > > > wants to
> > > > > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some
> > > more
> > > > > familiar
> > > > > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
> > > > fairly
> > > > > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> > > > > Dwarves. The
> > > > > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> > > > > Kingdoms of FA
> > > > > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
> > > > Numenoreans
> > > > > would be
> > > > > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that
> > > number) I
> > > > > will
> > > > > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> > > > > before because
> > > > > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> > > > > point trying
> > > > > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with
> > > the
> > > > > influx of
> > > > > > North American players who knows?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let me know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard.
> > >
> > >
> > > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
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> >
> >
> >
>
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#19

We could house rule it - basically no spells cast on Sauron - and should
Sauron die then no new character with that name allowed.

Clint

RD: Considering this. It would be pretty stupid to allow the Freeps to kill
Sauron with Curses even if the chance of them getting a curse squad is
remote. Once Sauron is dead, it's game over.

Richard.

>
> From: "TONY A & JANETTE S" <janton@cwcom.net>
> To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario
>
>
> > I'd be interested in playing.
> >
> > How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive spells?
>
> RD: thanks for the interest. I don't think Harlequin would be able to
> that - nor, really, would I want to. He's going to be quite powerful
enough
> and the FP must stand a small chance of killing him!
>
> Richard.
> >
> > From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@eds.com>
> > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
> > Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
> > > Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a major
> > > Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would

be

> > > a little silly!
> > > Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to

kill

> > > Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
> > > Dark Lord _too_ easy!
> > > Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
> > > available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
> > > controlled by the One Ring.
> > > Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
> > > pre-aligned?
> > >
> > > Ian Harris
> > >
> > > > What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> > > > _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> > > > no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> > > > to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> > > > it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> > > > of the FA artifacts anyway.)
> > > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...>

wrote:

> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me
> > > know
> > > > > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early on

&

> > > > let
> > > > > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which
> > > point
> > > > > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Ian Harris
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> > > > <devereux@l...>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play
> > > the
> > > > > hobbits!
> > > > > > > :slight_smile:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black
> > > Numenorians
> > > > > could be
> > > > > > > split
> > > > > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation in
> > > > Moria
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > 2950, the
> > > > > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > > > > Radagast had
> > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > followers in the east?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > > > > Corsairs before
> > > > > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > > > > followers except
> > > > > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > > > > commanded by the
> > > > > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
> > > > grafted
> > > > > onto FA.
> > > > > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in

1650/2950.

> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of you
> > > who
> > > > > have read
> > > > > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance. This
> > > war
> > > > > was the
> > > > > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of the
> > > > > Noldor and
> > > > > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge

battle

> > > at
> > > > > Dagorlad
> > > > > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle, Gil-
> > > galad
> > > > > and
> > > > > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and

Isildur

> > > > son
> > > > > of
> > > > > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it for
> > > > > weregild.
> > > > > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.
> > > Which
> > > > > is where
> > > > > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > > > > the 'historical'
> > > > > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's
> > > power,
> > > > > which
> > > > > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical
> > > shape.
> > > > > Any other
> > > > > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There would
> > > be
> > > > > a 'race'
> > > > > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the

nw,

> > > so
> > > > > they
> > > > > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his
> > > strength
> > > > > from a
> > > > > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and east.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg Gil-
> > > > > galad, Elendil
> > > > > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS!

Who

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harlequin Games" <pbm@harlequingames.com>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario

> ----- Original Message -----
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > wants to
> > > > > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some
> > > more
> > > > > familiar
> > > > > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
> > > > fairly
> > > > > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves and
> > > > > Dwarves. The
> > > > > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and South
> > > > > Kingdoms of FA
> > > > > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
> > > > Numenoreans
> > > > > would be
> > > > > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that
> > > number) I
> > > > > will
> > > > > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done so
> > > > > before because
> > > > > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was no
> > > > > point trying
> > > > > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with
> > > the
> > > > > influx of
> > > > > > North American players who knows?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let me know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard.
> > >
> > >
> > > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
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> http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
>
>

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#20

Should Sauron Die shouldn't he become the lidless eye in say 10-20 turns

and

become a random encounter?

RD: If Sauron dies it's game over, the FP win, end of story.

Harlequin Games wrote:

> We could house rule it - basically no spells cast on Sauron - and should
> Sauron die then no new character with that name allowed.
>
> Clint
>
> >
> > From: "TONY A & JANETTE S" <janton@cwcom.net>
> > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario
> >
> >
> > > I'd be interested in playing.
> > >
> > > How about the One Ring making Sauron immune to all offensive spells?
> >
> > RD: thanks for the interest. I don't think Harlequin would be able to
> > that - nor, really, would I want to. He's going to be quite powerful
> enough
> > and the FP must stand a small chance of killing him!
> >
> > Richard.
> > >
> > > From: Ian Harris <ian.harris@eds.com>
> > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > Sent: 16 January 2001 12:18
> > > Subject: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Best way to simulate One Ring would probably either to increase
> > > > Sauron's mage skill to simulate its presence OR to give him a

major

> > > > Mage artifact? A One Ring which its maker couldn't hang onto would

be

> > > > a little silly!
> > > > Might also want to prohibit Free Peoples from using Curses to

kill

> > > > Sauron - if its available in FA game it might make bumping off the
> > > > Dark Lord _too_ easy!
> > > > Also I assume Free Peoples couldn't use the Elven rings - if
> > > > available in this scenario - they took them off to avoid being
> > > > controlled by the One Ring.
> > > > Are there any neutrals in this scenario or would all nations be
> > > > pre-aligned?
> > > >
> > > > Ian Harris
> > > >
> > > > > What's neat about that scenario is that Sauron
> > > > > _starts_ with the One Ring!!! (Too bad it has
> > > > > no powers. Also the program is probably hardcoded
> > > > > to make its owner lose it 99% of the time, so
> > > > > it might not be practical. Plus, it isn't one
> > > > > of the FA artifacts anyway.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeremy
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Ian Harris" <ian.harris@e...>

wrote:

> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > Might well be interested in a "Last Alliance" game - let me
> > > > know
> > > > > > if it ever gets going. Then we can assassinate Isildur early

on &

> > > > > let
> > > > > > someone with more sense dump the Ring into the lava - at which
> > > > point
> > > > > > we all die in the resulting eruption - oops!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ian Harris
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, "Richard John Devereux"
> > > > > <devereux@l...>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: "Pontus Gustavsson" <pontus@g...>
> > > > > > > To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 3:04 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Re: DGE meets Harlequin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How bout coming up with some newer nations? For example:
> > > > > > > > > Out of 25 players in a game:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) 10 DS players chose from 15 or 20 DS nations
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2) Same for the 10 FP
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, the hobbits! I get to play the hobbits! I get to play
> > > > the
> > > > > > hobbits!
> > > > > > > > :slight_smile:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RD: Oh you sad person (g)!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Lossoth would be fun to play too, and the Black
> > > > Numenorians
> > > > > > could be
> > > > > > > > split
> > > > > > > > out of the Corsairs, and there could be an orcish nation

in

> > > > > Moria
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > 2950, the
> > > > > > > > Dark Lieutenants could get a nation each, and who knows if
> > > > > > Radagast had
> > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > followers in the east?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > RD: Historically the Black Numenoreans were absorbed by the
> > > > > > Corsairs before
> > > > > > > 1650. Radagast lived in Mirkwood not the east, and had no
> > > > > > followers except
> > > > > > > birds. Nontheless these suggestions have potential.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In 2950, an orcish nation in Moria could be justified - and
> > > > > > commanded by the
> > > > > > > Balrog! Now that would be fun to play!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you are looking for new nations, they can most easily be
> > > > > grafted
> > > > > > onto FA.
> > > > > > > I doubt whether Harlequin can/would change nations in

1650/2950.

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have the basis for just such a game, based (for those of

you

> > > > who
> > > > > > have read
> > > > > > > Tolkien's Silmarillion) on the War of the Last Alliance.

This

> > > > war
> > > > > > was the
> > > > > > > 'prequel' to 1650, when the good guys led by Gil-galad of

the

> > > > > > Noldor and
> > > > > > > Elendil of the Dunedain marched on Mordor, fought a huge

battle

> > > > at
> > > > > > Dagorlad
> > > > > > > and besieged Barad-dur. In the final climactic stuggle,

Gil-

> > > > galad
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > Elendil were both slain, but Sauron was overthrown, and

Isildur

> > > > > son
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > Elendil cut the One Ring from Sauron's finger and took it

for

> > > > > > weregild.
> > > > > > > Elendil was later ambushed and slain and the One Ring lost.
> > > > Which
> > > > > > is where
> > > > > > > The Hobbit and LoR start.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the FP to win the Last Alliance they need to achieve
> > > > > > the 'historical'
> > > > > > > result of either destroying Barad-dur (the seat of Sauron's
> > > > power,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > would start as a city/citadel) or slay Sauron's physical
> > > > shape.
> > > > > > Any other
> > > > > > > result is a DS win so a time limit may be needed. There

would

> > > > be
> > > > > > a 'race'
> > > > > > > element to the game as the seat of the FP power lies in the

nw,

> > > > so
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > would need to hit Mordor before Sauron could build up his
> > > > strength
> > > > > > from a
> > > > > > > smaller pop base and bring in allies from the south and

east.

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Last Alliance would provide lots of new characters eg

Gil-

> > > > > > galad, Elendil
> > > > > > > and Isildur, not to mention Sauron himself amongst the DS!

Who

> > > > > > wants to
> > > > > > > play puny Saruman in 2950 now eh? There would also be some
> > > > more
> > > > > > familiar
> > > > > > > ones like Elrond and the Nazgul. Some nation names would be
> > > > > fairly
> > > > > > > familiar, eg the 9 Nazgul plus Sauron v the various Elves

and

> > > > > > Dwarves. The
> > > > > > > nations of mortal Men would be different: the North and

South

> > > > > > Kingdoms of FA
> > > > > > > are perfectly named for the Last Alliance and the Black
> > > > > Numenoreans
> > > > > > would be
> > > > > > > there too. Which is where I came in.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If there is enough interest (24 players or close to that
> > > > number) I
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > finish the design and submit to Harlequin. I haven't done

so

> > > > > > before because
> > > > > > > we're only on turn 15 of my 2950 variant WotR and there was

no

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "kurgan" <kurgan@olp.net>
To: <mepbmlist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance Scenario

> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > --- In mepbmlist@egroups.com, JeremyRichman@c... wrote:
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > point trying
> > > > > > > to launch another new variant straight afterwards. But with
> > > > the
> > > > > > influx of
> > > > > > > North American players who knows?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let me know.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Richard.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > > > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > > > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
> > > http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/harlequin.games/list.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Harlequin Games
> > To Unsubscribe:www.onelist.com
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> >
> >
>
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