FP Strategies

[happymadcat]

News to me, and somehow comforting. When one hears someone else came out with the same design, and it worked, it usually means one got something right!

Out of curiosity, who DID take out the CL that way all those years ago? And why don’t we see it more often?

Darren Beyer to my knowledge devised the hidden city tactic all those years
ago. I learnt it from Rich Eismann 8-9 years ago and employed it atleast
10 games since then. The tactic is used in a fair few games, 20% would
be a guess. The hard part is getting the team to put the recources in;
Noldo to hide the camp and Cardolan to employ the emissaries and commanders
to fortify etc… Many grudge teams look out for the hidden city tactic now
by tracking Mantle of Doriath from T5-6. As with every tactic there is
a counter tactic

[thuiatt]

Try strategies.

I love playing strategies myself. Combining a little bit of several nations into a devestating strike which takes down a nation. Lots of planning, lots of teamwork, and a very pleasing result.

One of my favorite was the ‘hidden city’ concept which took down the Cloud Lord. Around turn 10, I think. This was Tina’s Cardolan in Tina’s first ever game.

It works like this:

The strike works by bankrupcy. In a single turn, you ensure the CL has no gold, no capital orders, take out every pop centre he has apart from his capital.

Cardolan bulids a city in the sands of central Mordor, maybe around turn 5. On the turn the camp is built, the Noldo hide it, so it’s never visible.

You take out the towns using 166 HC on each unfortified town. The town at 2629 falls to massed emi action.

Use some method to interdict capital orders. Several are available: assassins are risky as their artefacts can be stolen. Stealthy challenge characters are good, a Woodman speciality. And a curse squad to take out any army commander is ideal if you have one. This is important, as the plan’s biggest risk is that the CL will be involved in a buyout and have enough at his capital to keep him alive.

He needs an empty treasury the turn the armies arrive. So you steal every last penny on the turn the armies move.

So CL player gets home from work. He looks at his turn to find armies on his towns, no gold in his treasury and no characters to Nat/Sell. He’s dead and there’s nothing his team can do to save him.

I offer this as an example. There are many strategies like this. It takes a lot of advanced planning - we started the first actions about 7 turns before executing the plan.

Great tactic, but a very nice and productive counter strategy as well. Track the Mantle, notice where they place the camp, monitor it with your own agent waiting until it gets to a town, then pounce on it with your challenge characters. Reveal it about the same turn they upgrade to a city, challenge all the commanders with your high challenge characters and move an army onto the now city and take it back.

Thanks free for the major town.

tim

[thuiatt]

Which article? I’ve read many of them. However you want to put it, it really does not matter why they win more, it is that they do. Theorys aside, the facts speaks for themselves. Too much time has passed with too many games to discard it as simple poor strategy, corridnation favors the DS, etc. In general the FP counters to the dark basic actions are harder to impliment and detract from the free’s capacities in other areas. If one side requires more effort to corridinate to win than the other, that is an inherant disadvantage that is part of the game as designed. The fact that is not singularly mechanic based, does not make it any less of an issue.

See ya,
Ken

I think that is an excellent point Ken. The free probably require more totall coordination as opposed to the dark servants only needing partial coordination. It might be an advantage that is going to be hard to minimize.

tim

[Brad_Brunet]

The second Imladris appears any newly “hidden” pop is not…hidden, that is. Any DS that allows this to happen, well, good on them…

[mgrazebrook]

The second Imladris appears any newly “hidden” pop is not…hidden, that is. Any DS that allows this to happen, well, good on them…

One thing to know something’s hidden - but where? You could get a DS team really paranoid by hiding some irrelevant camp!

Anyway, this discussion was about FP strategies. It seems this one is a more tried and trusted play than I’d thought, at least according to Guy. So let’s have some more ! Who else come up with an interesting (maybe even original) way to take out a DS nation and made it work?

[lothrim]

A freep team using the mantle can disrupt gold transfers to DS nations in trouble by hiding a DS capital. Especially the DrL is vulnerable as he needs gold early on.

The tactic is very simply that you cannot transfer products to a hidden popcentre. The DS nation will have no forewarning of this threat and the gold transfer order will just fail.

The counter tactic is very simple. You can send gold to ANY popcentre of the recieving nation, so it is not a tactic that will last, it is a 1-shot tactic. But how many of you do not send gold directly to the capital?

You can also distrupt transfers of popcentres, as you cannot transfer a hidden popcentre. If the DS nations need to transfer MT’s to a needy nation they just might pick that MT that you hide. Especially early in the game there are not that many MT’s to pick from.

[Mahrc]

but once the game starts, I can’t see ever naming a multiclass mage, or a comm/emmie. That said, I’m sure someone can come up with a special circumstance where it could make sense.

Let me propose two reasons Dave:

1. 10 emmy/mage with cnj mnts spell
2. 10 comm/emmy recruiting at a front line popcen, or a MT that has been captured with low loyalty.

[Brad_Brunet]

But would you recommend keeping the one you have at start…

[Ed_Mills]

Free is always cheap.

[mbarber555]

The most effective FP strategy (there has been some good talk on tactics above - but not much on strategy) that I have seen / used - and yes it was used better against me than i was able to execute - is to bottle up Mordor with as little as possible and then just persecute every non-mordor DS with extreme prejudice. There is a fine balance to play here: if the DS realise too quickly that they dont need to defend mordor with much, then then will be away and making hay.

Of course the aim is economic decimation. But that wont work if the prices are manipulated sky-high…

[HolyAvenger]

But would you recommend keeping the one you have at start…

I would recommend keeping any character with com skill at game start even a triple 10… They can be used a troop recruiters leting the army commander tarin himself your 10 com and the troops… They are very effective on recruit bases… That also free the to write a second skill order so no matter the second class the train in 2 skill area per turn by turn 5 they are an effective character.

Now as for making other classes other than 10/20 com/agents I would not recommend them… But Like i said above characters with com skill are useful… Clints 10/20 com/mage I see as a stretch even for EO with conjure mounts… mage skill simply rises slower than any other skill… 10/20 com/emmy is workable… But you must build emmy skill every turn or don’t waste your time here… These guys make great backups or a 3 character in army… a 40+ com/emmy in a small threat group can come to a camp or village and improve it the turn you get it… You can also improve pc’s that are sieged. while is tsill don’t really recommend these guys… FP need com agents at least one for every straight COM guy they have… DS could use com/emmy but the cost does not seem very wise… any multiclass with com skill and 30 points total skill should never be made and existing ones retired.

Terry

[HolyAvenger]

I any multiclass with com skill and 30 points total skill should never be made and existing ones retired.

Terry

without com skill lol.

Terry

[Gixxxer]

I want to hear how FreePs are going to stem the tide. I don’t have enough experience to really add anything, myself.

Stem the tide ?

Impossible !

If you’re talking about game 3, also impossible.

Have Fun !

Gixxx

[Brad_Brunet]

The most effective FP strategy (there has been some good talk on tactics above - but not much on strategy) that I have seen / used - and yes it was used better against me than i was able to execute - is to bottle up Mordor with as little as possible and then just persecute every non-mordor DS with extreme prejudice. There is a fine balance to play here: if the DS realise too quickly that they dont need to defend mordor with much, then then will be away and making hay.

Of course the aim is economic decimation. But that wont work if the prices are manipulated sky-high…

Did that once, we were quite devastating, DS were very scared. In their desperation, they focused their character power together in a single theatre and destroyed one nation utterly. In the pause momentum shifted and it was all over from there.

Tried to bankrupt WK and Rhudaur one game also via Sitzkreig. That “almost” worked too.

Early game has to be a time to bring targetted nations to their knees such that as the mid game rolls along the FP’s own characters can attempt to help finish the crippled off. From there I envision a domino affect, but I’ve recently seen 6 weakened DS fend off 11 strong FP such that it likely could have gone on a long long time if the DS weren’t fed up. 1/2 of them wanted to quit out of pity “It’s not fair that these guys haven’t won yet, heck, they likely won’t if we don’t quit…”…

Brad

[Overworked1977]

I am curious. What sets the market purchase limit? Is it the amount of product that a nation has available to sell? Cuz if it is, then wouldn’t a way to combat the DS gold stockpile be stockpiling as much of the starting product of the FP as humanly possible at a hidden p/c, possibly even one that the is hidden by the NE? Wouldn’t this mean that the market purchase limit would consistently stay low, so, no matter what the market prices were doing, there would be only so much money that the DS could get out of it, right?

Now, this is all assuming that my idea bears any weight. Idle questions from an idle mind…grin

Wade

[Ed_Mills]

Darn, Wade, given enough people and enough time—one by one the secrets get figured out. The ME economy is based on classical unregulated supply and demand theory. This is a mighty long walk for a lot of people. Even in the United States where we are immersed from birth in a realtively unregulated economy, many people don’t understand it.

What happens when you have huge stockpiles of a commodity potentially available for immediate sale? Thats right, it depresses prices. You rascal you. I tried to explain this to some Danish team mates and I might as well have been talking Greek.

[Overworked1977]

Ed,

Well, I appreciate the praise, but right now it is an untested theory…as far as I know. Finances being what they are, it may be a while before I can participate in a game that puts this into action. Would you know of anyone that has used this to combat the DS gold stockpile?

Wade

[Brad_Brunet]

Too many potentials, and one can never tell (until afterwards…) what the other side is doing, thus, is what YOU are doing having an actual impact…

You’ll see both the Maintain High Resource Balances in the same “fight the DS economy” emails right next to which product to sell in an attempt to thwart a DS buyout. Now, if one side stockpiles resources, including even limited buys to augment their reserves (and keep their gold at 0 come Steal time…) how would that impact the DS piling all their starting gold on 1 nation on turn 1, which would immediately double prices…? Do the FP, starting now, have to find a way to convince their teammates that the “ONLY WAY!!” to defeat the DS economy is to start 947/948 resources around, not sell themselves, etc…? Gee, what a fun game I can see developing…

[DaveHolt]

Wade,
interesting idea. Ed’s reply would seem to agree with your idea. But wait, let’s consider things more carefully:

is “supply” the supply of goods in nations’ stores?.. Or is it the supply that is in the trade caravans that make up the “market”? I don’t know the answer, and I think it’s worth experimenting with. But it seems to me, after consideration, that it’s not the supply in nations’ stores, but rather the supply in the trade caravans (i.e. market) that determines the “supply” that should drive prices down if it’s big, or up if it’s small. That would map to supply & demand theory. take the diamond market. DeBeers is like a nation that possesses a ton of mithril. But the price of diamonds doesn’t go down because Debeers has a lot of diamonds. It goes down only if there are a lot of diamonds available further down the supply chain: on the market, outstripping demand. So Supply & Demand Theory would argue that it’s the quantity in the market, not quantity in nation stores, that impacts price.

As to demand, this seems to consist of two things:
a. # of purchases from the market
b. type of purchases (bidcar vs. prchcar)

I personally would bet that amount purhcased doesn’t matter, except to the extent that supply (quantity remaining in the trade caravans) is significantly depleted.

All that said, please experiment. it’s a very intriguing idea.

Dave

[Ed_Mills]

Nice thinking David. This brings up a couple of points:

If caravan traffic is controlling you don’t try to buy/sell your way out of an enemy attempted buyout. You just transfer material via caravan back and forth to each other.

If caravn traffic is controlling you create a “Great Depression”. In the Real World over-reaction to the 1929 stock market crash caused nations all over the world to enact protective tarrifs. World trade withered causing the depression. So, you engage in the absolute minimum of caravan traffic—best of all none whatsoever. If you can’t do it with your taxbase, restrain your grandiose plans.