Clint, Dave and I crafted the NW improvements in an effort to give the WK and Rhudaur positions just a little bit more “time” to survive since they can’t communicate with their other allies much. Even then, both of those positions got eliminated around turn 20 or so.
I’m not so sure that this swung things to the DS favor that much. My poor strategic decisions with the Eothraim led to my demise (and good play by the IK and Dog Lord)…not the lack of support from the NW FPs. Losing the SG Warships to a challenge of all things (that was a really bonehead play) pretty much gutted the SG offensive initially, and then SG having to support the Eo slowed us down as well.
I would harbor no problems in playing as a FP against “super Rhudaur” again.
Now as to nation pairings…I’m NOT a big fan of the IK being paired with a double scout nation like the QA. I would much prefer to see the QA paired with someone that does NOT name new agents at 40 with the possibility of stealth. At least make the IK do his own scouting…I may have had a chance then!!!
Well done Kim! John and I were most dissappointed at that support that you provided. We were feeling quite good about the south and our progress down there
I would like to add the ability to send diplos…perhaps one per nation/pair every ten turns or somesuch
I’m pro this. Once per duo every 10 turns (50 words) would be fine with me. I’ve thought about limiting what could be said in such a diplo - so there’s option on that.
1650 FP: 1/4 Woodmen/Arthedain, 2/8 Northmen/Dwarves (4017 Fort), 3/7 Eothraim/South Gondor, 5/9 Cardolan/Sindar, 6/23 North Gondor/Dunlendings, 10/22 Noldo/Harad DS: 11/20 Witch King/Dark Lieutenants, 12/21 Dragon Lord/Corsairs, 13/15 Dog Lord/Blind Sorcerer, 14/24 (Also CL town @3428 goes to village, CL town @3629 goes to MT, 1910 Fort) Cloud Lord/Rhudaur, 16/19 Ice King/Long Rider, 17/18 Quiet Avenger/Fire King
are the combos for the latest game. As a player using the NW changes it was a major improvement to the DS. Even if it didn’t keep the DS alive there (I’ve commented why as a player I felt that happened), it prolongs their life expectancy. This means an advantage for the DS overall (and I think that that has shown in the results recently).
I’m happy to vet the players who join btw if that’s what is wanted but I’d advise too stringent a requirement to play! I’ll send out emails to all the no-drop players to see what they say and also players that I feel might be interested in such a format if that’s okay?
Lets see if we can get the no quit committed members up and going. A limited diplo game sounds great as well. We can even not allow the first diplo until turn 10. That would allow the game to shape up etc etc.
John Folz and I will sign up as a team again (despite a lack of no-singleton combination rule… sob sob). Clint, do you want to put forward a proposed rule set similar to what we did for 94/96/97? i.e. make whatever changes you want to those as you have best overall review capability to the results and then propose them for us to comment on?
I will make a promise that if I get knocked down to a single nation, I will continue to play my nation and not allow it to get absorbed back up to a pairing (ok, I will make Tony continue to play that nation).
I learned a lot with this last game, so looking forward to the same level of competition in the next game.
Hmmm, I see your point Clint. I think that one of the keys to the FP “winning” is when the Cardolan/Arth/Dun forces start to show up assaulting Mordor in the T15 plus time frame. If they’re still fully engaged taking out the NW I could see that as tilting things in the DS favor and allowing them to get to the point where characters start taking over.
Our INTENT was to let those two, WK and RHUD have a better chance of survival etc. Perhaps another alternative similar to what was done with Dragon Lord after early games is possible…give Rhudaur a backup capital in Mordor (one of the CL towns perhaps, or even one of the Easterling towns converted to a MT??)…something, because that nation is always wiped early, too many enemies to contend with. That would at least allow some lifeline without overly “helping the NW hold out” such that it would turn the game…
It would also make it harder to eliminate the CL/Rhudaur pairing…If NG goes after the CL, and the Duns go after Rhudaur hard…I could see that entire pairing eliminated early, with little they could do to stop the demise…
that’s my two cents. I like the pairings overall, and am slowly working my way thru playing all of them…
I’ve messed up the Eothraim twice now. I’m SURE I can get it right with the third attempt
Don’t worry about what can be said…just limit it to 50 words. Allow diplos on T5, T15, T25, etc. It allows some communication, but is not frequent enough to be overly helpful to either side…and a lot can happen in ten turns…
I like the idea that on those turns (should be 6,11,15 I think so that it tallies with naming characters - easier for players to remember then) you can send a diplo of 50 words to your team-mates.
I like the Diplo part of the setup as well. But I think that the first one earliers should be turn 10. The game needs first have to settle down before you start “coordinating” with your allied. I dont like the idea of ganging up on a nation through Diplos early on in the game…
The one diplo game I played most players felt it favoured the free. I agree with Kim, first diplo should not be allowed until turn 10. However, I will agree to just about anything on the diplo front.
By Turn 10 a lot of damage can be done and Darks char war starts to show up than. I like Diplo set turns only 6, 11, 16, 21 ect of only 30 words. If you go to 6, 16, 26 ect, which I do not like, than allow 50 words. Every 10 turns will have zero impact on the game outside of the first one. Think about it? What is the % of games at turn 20 where not already decided?
I’ve been lurking and reading but thought I’d offer my unsolicited $0.02.
I’ve played in a diplo GB game and it was rarely ever used by my team (I think I received 1 diplo the whole game and sent 2). I don’t know if that was due to forgetting when we could send them or just general non-interest in sending, or too preoccupied with your own plans to bother getting burdened down by others selfish wants and needs ;). I think it has a chance of being unbalancing. A common mindset of GB players is the habit that you’re on your own and many play the game because of that, even though they may agree to a diplo game. If you have those on your team not really interested or not fully taking advantage of diplos against a team that is…the advantage I think is significant.
I’m a huge fan of the lattitude ME has allowed us players in deciding the nuances to their game (94/96/97 as evidence), but I do feel that with GB in particular, to fill a game you’ll get a few not fully committed to taking advantage of all the cases. I point to the fact that even those 3 GBs were no-drop, “special” games with personal invites, we still saw a number of drops. From what I’ve seen on this board, the no-drop adherence by some but not others took away from the game as some people just lost interest and didn’t commit as strongly, and so it could be with diplos. One side commits to diplos and another doesn’t and it could unbalance the game.
Diplos are an interesting thought but could be unbalancing so buyer beware.
I suspect that game 61 (the new no-drop game) is going to be filled with the most committed players…:eek:
Clint (GM)
As to players who don’t use the diplo, then that’s like not using agent orders… why restrict yourself. In the games I’ve been in I’ve sent diplos out virtually every time allowed - even if it doesn’t help you it does help your allies and hopefully they’ll return the favour. As to which side it helps the most I suspect that’s debatable.
My preference is No Diplos. But it’s a preference, not a mandate. If 61 has Diplos, then so be it. If it is to have them, I like the idea of a pre-set sequence of turns that they are allowed 6/11/16/21 (i.e. when new chars are available). And I agree with John’s suggestion to limit those to 30 words. I agree that they will favor the Free in general, but understand Clint’s point that special circumstances might well allow them to help the DS.
Corbin’s point is a good one from a historical perspective. In the one GB where John and I played with Diplos, less than half of our team used them at all, and certainly not on the frequency that they were allowed. John & I used them religiously, but we were a minority. That said, if GB61 shapes up to be the “ultra-committed & experienced” players that I suspect it will be, I think Clint is right and we’ll see a flury of diplos each turn they’re allowed.
