Since I got such an enthusiastic response to my curse squad question, I feel emboldened enough to ask for Gunboat players to share their suggestions regarding successful Gunboat gaming. I’m about to embark on two Gunboat games, a 1650 and a 2950. I’d be mighty grateful for any advice, warnings, or other suggestions.
Baruk
I think GB strategy is very-much based upon what the nation pairings are. There is some experimentation going on with respect to pairings. GB 71 (1650) is ongoing and has new pairings. We’ll see how it comes out.
bottom line is you need to view your opponents not as 12 nations, but really as 6 groupings of 2-nations each. Figuring out which of the players is playing what opponent groupings is very interesting in helping you determine strategy. For example, maybe you know that opponent A is really a great character nation player and typically eschews military in favor of character. You suspect they’re playing a nation (such as Duns for example) that can be tuned in either direction. Now you have a better idea about how to go after them - hard military attack.
I find I spend far more time thinking about GB games than regular games. You have to because information gathering is a huge priority. Where in a normal game you get lots of information from team mates, now you get none. So you have to predict what information is most critical for you next turn (and maybe the turn after) and figure out a way to gather it.
As such, mages become more critical in GB (there are several information gathering spells that you use all the time) than in most other scenarios.
Also, in general, i think this makes agents & curse squads less powerful. These type of character assets are in their prime when they can be allocated to best use each turn. Yet, in the abscence of true perspective of the “big picture”, it’s very difficult to allocate them to best use each turn. Military, on the other hand, is usually constrained to a local theatre and the information gathering needed to use it effectively is also constrained. Thus, military is enhanced in relative power vs. agent/curse.
Ultimately, I think this makes it harder for the DS to win (player skill being otherwise equal).
My $0.02.
Dave
Dave, do we know the ratio of DS wins to FP wins in Gunboat games? Or is it too early in the life of the Gunboat format for telling data?
Now I knock my GB out the same day I get it and just play my own game.
Vandal
Clint would be the right person to respond to the question on who wins most often - DS or FP. I believe in the past he’s said it’s fairly even. But I’m not sure we have a statisticly valid sample size. Also, we keep experimenting with pairings and neutral->aligned nation decisions. So, all is in flux.
I played CL in GB 14. I found it difficult to really do the “right” thing and would always be kicking myself that I didn’t have enough intel the turn prior to go intercept some incoming FP army outside IK capital or Morannon, or in Harad, or …
So, I think the FP have the edge. But then I’m biased by that one experience. But again, much is dependent on individual play, and there can be critical mistakes & dumb mistakes & bad play on any team… FP or DS.
That probably explains why the statistics are relatively even.
Dave
p.s. As to Frank doing his turns in one day - that’s because he’s got umpteen gazillion games under his belt. Most mere mortals need to think more about GB… And believe me I respect Frank’s experience. I’m not knocking him. I just don’t think he’s a typical GB player example. Right Frank?
Dave I only know one other person who plays it a lot and he does it the night before at the last minute to.
So no idea if its normal or not.
Vandal
My current gunboat game runs on a Monday, and when there is a Monday holiday, I can turn it around that same day, put it to bed and not have to worry about it for two weeks while concentrating on my other games. However, I usually like to sketch up some orders immediately, hopefully most of 'em, then think about the situation in the back of my brain for a few days before completing and sending in.
Drew
Dave, if the DS are not as advantaged in Gunboat games, that might be a good thing. For, as I recall, the DS clearly had the advantage in the regular games. Perhaps the Gunboat format helps to even things out a bit?
Your observations about the use of mages in Gunboat games were interesting. In the regular games it seemed that the use of intelligence-gathering spells was neglected because everyone shared their turns and as a player you already had information overload. I can see how in Gunboat games you would want to exploit the information-gathering capacities of your mages.
I’m getting excited and can’t wait to get started!
Baruk
I myself think if you play the numbers as the good guys given the lack or info sharing and arty transfers, the you should win more than you lose but like all things it depens who you are playign with.
No good being the best player in the world if you are the last player standing on your side.
Vandal
Based on what I’ve read, a big factor for who wins appears to be drop outs. At least in a normal game you have a chance of a teammate taking over the nation. In gunboat with everyone already starting out with 2 nations and people hesitant to join mid-game it becomes an issue.
Bernout
I don’t think dropouts become that much of an issue, from the nation going inactive standpoint. I can guarantee those already playing are chomping at the bit to pick up an extra nation. It seems that gunboat mostly turns into players ending up with 3 nations apiece, possibly more.
-Corbin
Like many games it’s who gets their turns in - mostly drop outs have been dealt with in GB. They are still more of an issue than normal games but generally okay.
The following new games are filling up.
1650 2wk Gunboat [Game 86]: 1 Duo available [3/2]
2950 2wk Gunboat [Game 29]: 3 Duos available [1/3]
Just in case anyone is interested.
Clint
Everything that applies in a normal game is even more important in a Gunboat game for one reason:
You CANNOT rely on anyone else for help on any consistent basis.
See a bunch of friendly icons headed your way? They might be there to help, or they might be going somewhere else. You just never know, so don’t rely on them for anything. Pleasant surprises are nice just not to be expected.
And now on to general strategies that have worked for me.
Build your economy. In every Gunboat game I’ve played in thus far I’ve managed to successfully build up the economy of one of my nations in order to fund the other. I managed this by getting as many camps down as possible by whatever means, emmies and commanders leading small armies. The goal should be to have a wide variety of product to sell and not just concentrate on one item.
Watch your economy. Easier said than done, I know. But it needs to be stressed as money will be hard pressed so it’s important you have product to sell every turn to cover whatever deficit you might have. If this means cutting back on troops or characters, so be it, but you cannot allow yourself to go bankrupt.
Play to the strengths of your nations. If you’re an army nation, play armies. If you have agents, use them. Don’t try to turn your nation into something it wasn’t meant to be rather play the hand you’re given. The CL should not be fielding armies all over the place, nor should Rohan try to build a curse squad.
Eliminate nearby threats as quickly as possible. Everyone knows where everybody else starts, so do your best to secure your territory before you go after bigger fish.
Hope this helps…
Picking up GB games is tough on standby - unless you pick up the whole pair. I stepped into a GB game as Harad that was paired with Arthy (i think). He had built a massive army and such in Harad, with ZERO emmies, and was paying for it all by having the Arthy send gold. Well I signed up as Harad and I didn’t get gold from arthy until the very last turn. Thankfully the game ended only 2 turns before the Corsairs could stop my now near bankrupt or defenseless nation!
JB
Ben, thanks for the strategy tips. Sounds like good advice to me. Clearly, the Gunboat format puts more pressure on players economically.
Baruk
As Ben says, two of the most important things are managing your economy and playing to the strengths of your nation.
I’ve found that I usually try and develop one nation as the money lender and one as the money easter. For example, in the last GB I was in, I was FK/CL. In this case, I had to use the CL to finance the FK armies. While I did camp for the FK, mostly that was done in areas where I could expect dragons and hence came with the usual slew of encounters that tend to kill off those camp placing emmis. But, with the CL only maintaining seed armies, I was able to not only steal gold from the FP, but also lay camps and then improve pop centers with which to fund the FK with either cash or product.
In regards to playing to strengths, in the same game, I used the FK to recruit and generally capture as many pop centers as I could (minas Ithil and the east coast of Anduin) this helped fund the nation and played to the FK strength since I didnt need to mess around trying to build up emmis. In concert, I had Cl agents working the pop centers ahead of time so I could clean out any characters in the area and generally make it easier for the FK to take over.
Finally, I would say to concentrate your attacks. Try to use both your nations against one of the enemy nations…dont try to do everything at once or you’ll get nowhere.
Fletch and Ben, thanks once again for the Gunboat strategy advice.
A question – you both say you should play to the strength of your nation in Gunboat. If you are an agent nation, for example, do not spend time and effort building and fielding armies.
But doesn’t it often occur in Gunboat that circumstances force you to act in ways that are out of character for your nations? Since you cannot coordinate well with your allies, division of labor becomes difficult. It would seem to me that you cannot count on being an artifact-hunting mage nation or an assassinating/kidnapping agent nation or a pop-center developing/influencing emissary nation in Gunboat because you cannot count on your allies doing what you think they should be doing.
Your thoughts?
Baruk
Don’t listen to Fletch, he tends to bankrupt his own nations…
If you look at the way the game is set up, nations are placed on the map where they can play to their strengths. If you find that your nation is having to do something that it’s not meant to do, you’re likely in trouble because you or one of your allies has screwed up.
Th point of gunboat is it was meant for those who had played for a bit and new how to play a position without the need for talking.
So as has been said if you do that which is odd, your allies have got it wrong and you may be in deep trouble.
Vandal
Is that the “point” of Gunboat, Vandal? Thanks for putting me straight. I don’t think my allies will need to fret. I suspect I will be able to hold up my end. You may learn that as an object lesson yourself if ever you end up as my opponent in a Gunboat game.
By the way, you may want to spell-check your messages just a wee bit before posting them. You don’t want to sound too foolish, do you?
Baruk