Suggested GunBoat changes (version 4)
Problems that I can see:
· 3 nations per player are not good for the game.
· Need for the game to have committed players.
· Drop outs need to be replaced.
Potential solutions below:
· No 3 nations (see 2)
· Pool of players (see 1i, 3 & 4) with free turns
See below for more detailed analysis of what I’m proposing
Thanks
Clint
Detailed explanation - feedback very welcome and essential.
1) Finances
i) Set-up fee: $5 per duo which will be used entirely for the Player Pool. See 4) for how those funds would be distributed in the form of free turns (subsidised by us).
ii) Set-up cost: Set-up cost costs the usual grudge game set-up (due to the additional database work) plus the $5 as in i) above.
iii) Discount: Reduction for turnfees is 5% for a player if he is running two nations on turns 6/11/16/21 etc (ie they get a free turn then to reflect this).
2) Nations
Two nations per player maximum (3 nations no longer allowed). This duo can be split as normal between two players but they count as one player for purposes of number of nations per “team” allowed. Iie you and an ally can play together in a GB game if you want to playing one nation each.
3) Drops
One nation players are eligible to pick up a dropped nation, then we’ll look outside the game for others preferably from the Pool of players. If they’re signed up for this Pool they’ll get the bonus money as described in 4) below. (If not then they don’t get the additional bonus).
4) Pool of players
What we’d like: A pool of players come forwards that offer to pick up a nation should we not be able to find players outside the game for GB drops. They would get the following offer for a pick up:
1st pick up - 1 or 2 nations gets 4 free turns for each nation.
2nd & 3rd pick up - 1 or 2 nations gets 3 free turns for each nation.
Further picks up get 2 free turns per nation.
Note: i) Picking up player must pay for their first two turns (in advance)
(ie we’ll remove the funds from their account and add 2 free turns so they’ll have a total of at least 4 turns paid for).
Thoughts, once again, very welcome.
Clint (GM)
Clint,
I agree with just about everything except the bulk-buy in. I understand that many feel that it would discourage people from dropping the game. Unfortunately for people like me on a fixed ME budget, it would be rather prohibitive to pay all at once.
Everything else is fine, and as my games end, I will be available to be part of the pool of players.
My .02.
Wade
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Wade you could always share the position and 3 turns extra is the actual cost (minus 10%). If you can see any other way to discourage drops easily then feel free to suggest it as I think this would do that yet reward loyalty as well (it’s actually cheaper to play!). I’ve got 7 for a GB game at present so would like to test it out.
Clint (GM)
Well, to be honest, Clint, I cannot suggest a better way of doing things. I understand that it is cheaper. I actually think some of the things that you came up with (funding the player-pool pick-ups) were rather innovative. I can say that when I join another gunboat will be dictated more by the cost of joining than the possibility of drops. But, should these become some of the rules, then I will support them, of course. GB is fast becoming my favorite medium…grin
Wade
Clint
Just to check I’m understanding this correctly. Would the money still be coming from our standard account, i.e. the amount we have for general games or would it be seperate? [Presuming the former as the latter gets rather more complex]. What happens if a player forgets to beef up his amount enough to meet the next slice? [Presumably frozen until he does?]. Would the company be reminding us and what happens if for some reason someone doesn’t say whether they select 5 or 10 turns? Any reason why your halving the number of turns left over when a game/nation ends that is transferable to another game? Just trying to get things right in my head.
With the pool of players why the difference in the number of turns they get free depending on whether its the 1st or later pick-up? Also not clear in my head what you mean about pick-up players having to pay up to the next point, despite having free turns? Do you mean the difference between their free turns and the next paying slot. If say its turn 9 and someone drops, with the next payment point 2 turns away does that mean the pickup players free turns carry them over to turn 11 or that they have to pay up to turn 16 - minus their free turns? [Not too great a matter for me as if I join another gunboat it will be from the start as like to plan ahead with the time. However hopefully my questions are clarifying rather than clouding the issues].
One other point. No disrespect to our cousins across the pond 
, but what’s the amounts in real money? No real idea of the current exchange rate but the 8 turn two nation set-up at $155.55 is still going to be a fair wack in £’s.
Steve
Perhaps you could make the “Resign Game” voting mandatory for both teams just before a new 5-turn slot was about to begin.
This would eliminate the “Oh no, someone on my team has requested a resignation vote, I guess that if I do not vote to concede it will mean that my teammates drops” syndrome.
I can’t see anything wrong with the suggestions - in fact they address just about all the problems I have with Gunboat as it stands now. If these 3 changes were implemented I’d certainly keep one GB game on the go all the time … just like I used to
\o/ \o/ \o/ for the ideas!!
Colin
Clint,
I think, your above outline will go a long way to improving the Gunboats. Good work. I do like the bulk buy on turns. I’m one of the rare few that would rather pay for my game upfront.
John L.
For clarity - transferring of free turns - is this the same as leftover turns from bulk buying? I.e. two situations:
(1) I pickup a dropped nation, get 4 free turns. Nation dies in two, so 2 free turns remaining. I then get 1 free turn for any other game?
(2) I buy 10 turns in bulk, the enemy destroys me in 5 turns. What happens to those 5 remaining turns I bought in bulk?
JB
Okay first things first. Like many things this is not fixed - I’m putting out some ideas and see if they stick (or you guys have something better to suggest). In answer to
Would the money still be coming from our standard account, i.e. the amount we have for general games or would it be seperate?
From your normal account.
What happens if a player forgets to beef up his amount enough to meet the next slice?
We take the funds as part of the set-up cost and keep a tally ourselves on takeovers.
Would the company be reminding us and what happens if for some reason someone doesn’t say whether they select 5 or 10 turns?
Not sure - I’ve not thought that through. Possible solutions are that we remind that player or that we take the funds for 5 turns. If the player doesn’t get back to us we with-hold turns I suppose (like going low funds).
Any reason why your halving the number of turns left over when a game/nation ends that is transferable to another game?
Cover our costs here. Otherwise players just buy turns at reduced rate, transfer them to another game where we’re aiming not to subsidise/improve the other formats (they’re fine IMO).
With the pool of players why the difference in the number of turns they get free depending on whether its the 1st or later pick-up?
Couple of reasons. 1) The $60 covers only a few of the turns (we subsidise the player 2 turns in each case though). Roughly it covers around 8 turns.
Also not clear in my head what you mean about pick-up players having to pay up to the next point, despite having free turns? Do you mean the difference between their free turns and the next paying slot. If say its turn 9 and someone drops, with the next payment point 2 turns away does that mean the pickup players free turns carry them over to turn 11 or that they have to pay up to turn 16 - minus their free turns?
Not 100% sure myself - what do players suggest? I’d suggest up until turn 11 - basically to save admin at our end.
£1 is around $1.88
i I pickup a dropped nation, get 4 free turns. Nation dies in two, so 2 free turns remaining. I then get 1 free turn for any other game?[/i]
No - dropped nations picked up don’t have transferrable free turns. Part of the reason is that it could be abused and I want to encourage support of GB not the opposite…
i I buy 10 turns in bulk, the enemy destroys me in 5 turns. What happens to those 5 remaining turns I bought in bulk?[/i]
3 turns would be transferrable to another game.
Clint
Extra: I’m not sure what the answer is that gives both players their best game, and us a decent income to support players having their best game… so feel free to suggest alternatives. At present you get a 5% discount on turns for GB for example but there’s nothing to encouarge players to stick to the game. It was a big question for us between players buying a bunch of turns, getting knocked out by enemy action and/or by SSing, deliberately not playing to best (or even blowing up their own nation when things got “tough” so this seemed a fair compromise - benefits both parties in some manner).
We can’t charge retroatively for turns as some players will find themselves in financial difficulties so that’s not possible. Charging a cost per turn depending on the number of turns is a different possibility but I’ve not come up with a decent method for that yet. Refunding the bulk buy doesn’t work in that it doesn’t support GB, but having them all disappear is clearly unpleasant for players… (I’d hate it!) so some system of reward is appropriate (partially that’s cheaper fees - 15% discount is quite a lot!)
Feedback on the dropped aspect (I think it supports the game format a lot - ie free turns) and the 2 nation rule would be useful as well here please.
Clint
I guess I would be wary of buying turns in bulk as the game progresses, or as a dropout-pickup, even if I get a 5-15% discount, if I stand to lose the other 85% of remaining turns should the game end or I be knocked out - in your example I lose 2 turns and keep 3 (3 save 15% but I lose 85% on the other 2). If it is turn 7-9 and you are Rhu under heavy pressure, its a hard sell to buy the next 5 turns in bulk at that point, knowing that I could lose a lot of that. Maybe I’m not seeing this correctly, I should re-read.
I see the problem you are trying to avoid, I am unsure an answer.
I agree - with some nations that are tentative despite your best efforts you could be wasting money. Not sure what the solution is. One thought we had was buy a GB game up front but that’s big money for players.
Some solution where instead you agree to play was the No drop format but there are drops even in that due to RL problems that just can’t be avoided. So subsidising player pick ups (it’s only $5) would certainly help us to find players outside the game - maybe we then just go with that and cut out the bulk rate and discounts? Might be worth a try (and I’m coming to the conclusion that’s the best way at present).
Thoughts welcome.
Clint
See changes above - I’ve edited the original document for clarity and basically removed the bulk fee costs as I think they’re not workable. Check out and feedback please guys.
Clint (GM)
The only comment I have is with respect to the reserve pool of players and needing to pay for 2 turns up front. As we know it is very possible to take over a nation in a very precarious position and it would suck needing to fork over some $$$ and then your nation is out in a turn or two (or the game ends). As you know, this happened to me once already. I’d much rather get less free turns and not have to dish out this upfront cost.
Other than that it looks great and you can count me in for the reserve pool in any case.
Bernout
Just want some sort of commitment from the Pick-up players - rather than play all the free turns, then drop… I think this should do it - if the player doesn’t want to play the position they don’t have to and paying up front for 2 turns to get upto 6 turns seems a big incentive I’d say.
I think we’re getting there - and with 9 positions filled in the latest 1650 GB anyone fancy trying it out?
Clint (GM)
The interesting point will be to see how the pool of players that take over dropped positions like playing those positions.
I like the upfront $5 charge as that would be a great way to insent the pool of players with the free turns.
I still think one should pay upfront for the first five turns. If you bankrupt your nation or get eliminated in the first five turns you deserve to lose your upfront money in my opinion.
tim
The changes sound a huge step in the right direction. Personally I feel pick
up players shouldnt have to do bulk buy turns in advance.
Surely the usual payment structure should apply to pick up players?