KS Game 679, recently completed

Before listing my bone-headed mistakes in game 679, I tip my cap to the Eldacar/Rebels player in this one. I don’t know who you are and don’t need to know. You and Rhovanion (who I think took too much time building up forces instead of deploying them early) kept the combined forces of Castamir and Elendin out of Rhovanion and Mirkwood (for the most part).

Game 679 was the first KS GB I signed up for. Around the same time, I signed up for a KS with neutrals game, g676. I knew very little about KS, especially NPCs. So I didn’t know what kind of emissary it took to recruit one, and I didn’t know they could be traced via spells like LAT and Reveal Character True. I assumed NPCs were like dragons in 1650, and to my knowledge, RCT doesn’t work in locating dragons.

Major Mistake Number One:
So, mostly out of ignorance, I entirely skipped the project of finding/recruiting NPCs. Castamir had ZERO npcs; Elendin had ZERO npcs. Throughout the entire game. Gulp Now I recognize that as a big mistake. It’s obvious why: 1.) unlike characters you can name (create) at your capital, npcs, in terms of gold cost, are FREE to recruit; 2.) they are better skilled than any character you can name, some are even champions; 3.) they often boost the skills (multiple) of the player character recruiting them. I read the KS rulebook closely and none of this is even hinted at. In order to make the game exciting to explore through the act of playing it, much about NPCs is hidden from the first timer. I like that aspect. However, reticence about wasting orders, wasting time, wasting resources in a war might keep 1st time KS players from exploring the NPC dimenstion of the game.

Major Mistake Number Two:
Assuming my ally, the SK, would take care of Amroth down at 2137. I didn’t have reveal pop center and didn’t want to spend the resources trying to get it and fighting Amroth’s army to keep him bottled up. After taking the Quendi village at 2136 alongside Orf B’s army, I assumed SK would finish the Quendi off in this area and sent my forces to take Minas Ithil (3124), which the Rebels had improved to a City. The combined might of Castamir and Elendin armies had just enough strength to route the defending Rebel army and take his city. Next, I took 3224. Earlier I had threatened away 3 Rebel villages, so I felt the damage done to them would stunt their growth for a while. Meanwhile, Amroth grew like a cancer down in Umbar. He took several pop centers before he was turned back. The Havens of Umbar and 2339 never fell, but basically everything else did and it cost Castamir dearly.

Major Mistake Number Three:
Forgetting to send the turn 11 diplo. Information in GB games is like lifeblood. I just got busy with RL stuff and forgot it was diplo turn. I would have warned my allies about a deadly Rebel agent by the name of Needle. He must have been gifted with very good stealth when he was named. And perhaps given a stealth artifact or two along the way, because he was blowing up bridges, blowing through 40-skill guards to assassinate Regent army commanders. And all of that by about turn 11.

Here are a few words about the possible mistakes I saw others making. On the Castamir set up, I chose to double Morlaen’s best agent, Caramir. I figured it was one way to get some frequent, reliable information about undisclosed events in the game. Through 16 turns, I never saw Caramir attempt one kidnapping, not one assassination. In my opinion, the only way to give Angmar a fighting chance vs. Arnor is to have Morlaen lead the world in kidnappings and assassinations. Rebels should be a distant 2nd place. But Morlaen has to have about a dozen capable agents up in Arnor/Angmar kidnapping those Arnor commanders to slow their military campaign vs. the Witch-realm. No way Angmar can stand up to Arnor without it.

I just read Rob’s response about this game in another thread and he took the words out of my mouth regarding another potential mistake. As the Southron Kingdoms, if you sit back and build turn after turn as a nation, you will be super powerful and lose the game when all your allies die. I think you’ve got to deploy your forces early to keep your enemies hemmed in. It seems like a general strategy for winning KS is to focus power on ONE enemy nation, trying to knock them out. If you do, chances are the player will resign his other nation, giving you a 2-for-1 knock out blow. Once one duo goes down, the rest of the allegiance is likely to quit as well.

OK. Well, I said I’d explain more in this post so here goes. I played the Hithlum and Southrons in this game.

Hithlum I don’t think I made too many mistakes with - I went flat out aggressive against the Horselords and threw everything I had at them, up to and including the kitchen sink. I wiped most of their starting pops (in the east) off the map, but could never muster enough forces to take the fight to their cities with their fortifications. I mean, they had no forces north of the river and had to blow up the bridge to prevent me crossing over. And yet… they kept coming. I was recruiting around 3000 troops a turn and it felt like he was out recruiting me. And recruiting cavalry whilst I was forced to go the HI route. In the end I was on the defensive south of the river - and that’s without (a) any of his team mates chipping in militarily, or (b) much offensive use of anything bar armies - so little agent or emissary action until right at the very end (from him). Meanwhile I captured or kidnapped 3 or 4 of his characters… and it made no difference at all.

Overall it felt unbalanced. Very grindy and rigged so the Hithlum couldn’t really progress. Maybe in a team game things are different, but in Gunboat it sort of felt like a waste of time in hindsight.

Southrons. Well, here I lacked a focal enemy so expanded economically. This was a mistake. I took my eye off the ball and wasn’t as aggressive as I could have been at the start. Then lady luck kicked me hard. I can’t remember how many times I tried to learn reveal pop centre with M60-M80 mages. They all failed. Until they didn’t… and one managed it at 35% or something. So I forgot it and learned it some more… This meant the Quendi pop centre in Umbar couldn’t be touched until something like T9 or 10 and this is where I made another more serious mistake - I left it alone until I could reveal it when what I should have done was just march an army onto it and play beatdown. I could afford to lose the troops there and he then wouldn’t have been able to muster a nuisance force to attack later.

There’s not a lot more to say - by game end the Southrons were just getting into their stride. I dumped a 5500 eqHI on Tharbad (1614) via Navy and simultaneously 2800 eqHI on 1715. I also had 5500 eqHI (in reality 2500 st/st fed HC) @ 3118 to finally go play merry hell with the HL. 3616 was in my hands and the Rebels had been wiped out of Southern Mordor. But… I researched (or otherwise identified) 128 artifacts and only in the last but 1 turn did I find one with curses. And when I located it it turned out to be in the sea up in the far NW. Meanwhile the opposition had at least 2 fully formed curse squads doing a lot of damage.

And how’s this for luck? I move (with no warning) Akhorahil to the Eldacar capital to cast reveal pop centre (she finally got it!) and did so successfully that same turn. The next turn she’s cursed to death. Then my army which could have gotten into the capital is blocked by Rhovanion (different player and this is gunboat remember…) and the assassin capable agent with the army is cursed to death. Then the next turn the army is blocked yet again by Rhovanion and the commander is cursed to death. What an incredible series of coincidences. So, I won’t play another game that contains this, frankly stupid, spell. It’s pure luck as to whether you get it and it has a devastating impact. I’d rather save myself a lot of money and just roll some dice at the start to see who wins.

The only other thing to really mention is that it turns out that we were pretty much all first time players of KS on the DS side. You read about the Castimir/Elendin mistakes above. I didn’t make some of those (I recruited pretty much as many NPCs as I could lay my hands on) but I did make others that I wouldn’t do second time round. The WK/Morlaen player was playing his first game after a long period away (and it might have been his first KS game as well). It didn’t feel as if we were matched against equally inexperienced players - not the first time I’ve levelled this complaint. The game suffered as a result.

I’m now torn on Gunboat. After a truly horrible normal game (where players would just ignore suggestions and do their own thing) I thought GB was the way ahead. However I’ve now had some very negative experiences because there’s no communication. Like my second KS game where I chose to quit on T9 (I think) because Arnor had managed to bankrupt himself. Great experience that was.

I’d also make a suggestion. ME Games now send out a reminder email if you haven’t got a turn order in. This, I thought, was a fantastic improvement - in the dim and distant past I can remember quitting a game as I’d missed the deadline on a critical turn. It’s time they did the same for diplos. It cannot be that hard to automate an email warning that the next turn is a diplo turn. I missed way too many as I simply forgot it was that turn - or my attention was on another game or real life incident. And it turns out missing diplos can seriously affect a game’s longevity. So ME Games - you’re missing a trick here. Sort it out and make more money. Or don’t and … well, don’t. And have disaffected customers to boot!

I think that’s most of it!


Heya Rob, thanks for the summary from your perspective with g679. I don’t know who our opposition was and how much KS they’ve played, but I’m likely to guess they didn’t have much more experience than our side. I NEVER heard rumors or saw proof of activity for the major Loyalist NPCs: no Saruman, no Gandalf, no ents, no eagles, etc. However, the major mage NPCs might have been recruited to fulfill SM squads up north. I just don’t know.

I don’t have any complaints about g679, and I don’t think the game is “broken” in any way. I still really like mepbm in general and KS in particular. In my very humble opinion, a lot of grievances about the state of the game, the power of agents and Curse squads, or what have you, comes from TEAM games in 1650 or 2950 where there is more of a ‘scripted’ aspect to play. It can seem like players have it all figured out–the dos and don’ts–and casual players can just feel like they are being “robbed” of a fun game experience. Personally, I don’t like mepbm games where resources can be shared/transferred. It can definitely create some “Why is this even possible in mepbm?” moments. Even in KS, if you transfer stealth and agent artifacts to characters like Murabeth (who starts with a 50 agent rank), they can go out and kill some army commanders real quick–forcing those armies to disband. If Rhovanion is supposed to be somewhat balanced with Castamir, what’s the point of going for balance when Castamir can overcome Rhovanion’s armies via assassination, but Rhovanion CAN’T return the favor?

In Gunboat, it’s just not possible for agents like Murabeth to be that effective. They have to grow ON THEIR OWN, develop, eventually take some risks, and hope they can become a major force later. I’m bringing this up because it’s something I learned the hard way in g679. Remember, I was playing Castamir. Murabeth got up to become a 66 agent relatively early, like turn 7. I remember thinking, ok, she’s a 66 agent who is going to target a 33 (approx) commander for assassination. I chose to send her after a 30ish rank Rhovanion army commander at their capital (3213), who was leading an “army”. Murabeth failed due to tight security and was killed in the attempt.

My best agent killed in a blink. Lesson learned–I didn’t know much about the relative difficulties of “agent missions.” (I thought, they all say “Hard” difficulty, right?) Now I know it’s WAY more likely to kill a target who is alone, out in the “wilderness” than it is to go after an army commander at an enemy pop center! Live and learn.

One last point about the Hithlum-Horselords confrontation in general. I simply love it, and there are so many ways it can pan out due to the nations’ set up choices. Should Hithlum start with hidden major towns? Should Vidustrain start as a Marshal with a +30 command artifact and a jaw-dropping greatsword? Will they go with Conjure Mounts or a decent emissary in order to try and recruit NPCs?

Part of the attraction in GB games from the fact that both Hithlum and the Horselords have a wealthy “backer”: Southron Kingdoms can support Hithlum and Quendi can back the Horselords. If you were fielding heavy infantry armies against the Horselords’ heavy cavalry, you know as well as I do that that’s a recipe for disaster.

Why not have the SK transfer the thousands of mounts Hithlum will need to beat back their northern foes? And throw in some STEEL to boot! With SK support (and you admit that you had plenty of support to give), Hithlum should ALWAYS be on at least an equal footing with the Horselords. With hidden pcs available for cheap on their set up, they can be a force to reckon with for many, many turns.

Lastly, I like the idea of Hithlum being hit-and-run raiders. Maybe they don’t emass huge armies for the first dozen turns. They appear out of nowhere with 400hc armies and sack a couple of Horselord villages and just keep repeating that erosion until the Horselords economic base is crippled. I’m playing Hithlum in a 1vs1 game (686) and thoroughly enjoying myself, even tho it’s turn 13 and the Horselords are holding their own. Dilgul started as a City/Castle and hasn’t been scratched yet.

I will do a more comprehensive report but I made lots of mistakes as WK.

On the NPC front I saw Saruman, Gandalf, Tom Bombadil, Losspindal and Cirdan, that I can remember off the top of my head. I think Istar Luin was on their side too.


I played the Eldacar/Rebels nations :slight_smile:

I will give a more thorough description of this game from my point of view when I have more time, but I like to put my kudos to the Elendil/Castamir player. That was masterful military play I saw from you, and it took all my skill of collecting intel and hours of guessing what you next move would be, to try and counter it !

I was lucky to locate and pick up RoW early and able to pick up a lot of the agent, mage and curze artifacts throughout the game, so by turn 21 I had 9 agent/stealth artifacts and training my second curze squad.

Also I had Elrond, Galadriel and Arwen doubled from the Eldacar nation start setup, that gave me a ton of valuable info each turn !

The Rebel assassins were coming in line and both by luck and good intel (double scout, LAT, RCT) I managed to hunt down and kill a lot of powerful characters throughout the game, including:

Murazor, Hoarmurath, Adunaphel, Casteher, Colfen, Elendin, Sorthed Danka (main HiT agent), Duranil, Hov Narag, Akhorahil, Ji Indur…

I think there were times in the game where the balance could have slipped both ways, but by 21 the advantage of four FP squads compared to zero active DS curze (to my knowledge) squads and the superiority of the FP assassins, due to heavily controlling almost all of the agent/stealth artifacts, the game was in the end shifting heavy towards FP victory.

Kim Andersen

Hi Kim!

Thanks for chiming in. Doubling those Quendi characters via Eldacar setup was a really smart choice for a GB game. I bet anyone reading this will consider doubling an ally character in a KS GB game in the future. Big, obvious benefit that isn’t too expensive on the set up if I recall correctly.

As Castamir, I have some decent start mages (two 50’s), but it seems like they can’t do the great Artifact Search while at the same time developing Spirit Mastery. So I went with developing SM because they started with Kuileondo. Casting proficiency was poor, and I didn’t get my first SM kill until around turn 10. I believe we hit the Rebels Finod, but because my nations never had Curses, they had to stick their neck out and risk direct confrontation with Weakness/Sickness spells. By that time, it was only a matter of time before your superior agents cut my characters down.

I’m curious, how did Eldacar/Rebels, who both lack decent starting mages (40 max), turn themselves into effective artifact hunters? 412 to 428 is a big step.

Anyway, I tried to play the cards I was given and of course the strong hand of Castamir/Elendin is their military, working in unison. But you played brilliant defense and bought your character/agent development enough time! Congrats–tho I lost, I thoroughly enjoyed the game.


A few more points…

MEPBM is a complex strategic wargame, but in the end it all comes down to skill and experience. Even though this was only my second KS game, I have played ME for more than 20 years and know very well how the orders works. Assassinating army-commanders at enemy capital is extremely difficult (and rightfully so) and requires high rank assassins with agent artifacts.

Also like in 1650 Curze/agents are a huge part of the game and each is required for complex strategic options in the game. Without curze, games becomes pure assassin games, as there are no counter and no defense for your armycommanders. If you dont like the character war aspect of MEPBM, then sign up for a military game only.

Its easy to blame agents/curzes for a defeat, but the fact is that in KS the DS side can actually start the game with two curze squads and Murazor can start with Sickness, so with cooperation the DS side can actually have an operational Curze squad quite quickly. The FP can start with zero curze artifacts, but Quindi has the start option of getting hex for Tinculin.

Furthermore the DS side has access to much more agent artifacts than the FP side, and Morlaen should be a much more effective agent nation than Rebels. So all in all the DS should have the character war advantage in all KS games. Like in 1650 this needs to be countered by stronger military FP nations to have a game balance.

So I dont see any need to change any major part of the KS setup, unless MEPBM sees a trending that one side seems to be winning A LOT more than the other side.

Answering: Artarkis
“Curses and Agents in game 679 made my WKA nigh unplayable. I was down to single figure pop centres early on and any recruiting base I had was under threat.
Agents of the Rebels turning up at KoA MT and assasinating Hoarmuruth and Murazor on the same turn were particularly annoying. I was finally getting a curse squad when we resigned but the Loyalists had at least 2. My first full KS game and it seemed USU were all first timers too at the start.”

I learned through nation messages that Arnor was in serious trouble, and on brink of collapsing. I therefor send my agent squad towards Arnor and used my palantirs to scry his homeland several turns. I here learned of a huge WiA army heading towards the last remaining Arnor MT besides his capital and sent my agent squad here with a powerful double scout.
So it was of great surprise to learn that Murazor and Hoarmurath was part of that army and naturally they were my targets ! I understand that this must have been very frustrating losing these two powerful characters the same turn, but this is the nature of the game.

I played WiA/Hirthlum in my first KS game 672 and here I also lost Murazor with 158 challenge rank to a very unlucky challenge, I was of course upset, but in the end it was my own fault because I took the chance of not refusing challenge.
Furthermore the Arnor player was playing extremely well and quickly took control of all WiA pops, so I had to relocate WiK and had very little pops left and had to build up from scratch elsewhere. Sometimes you just get some very unlucky events against you or face great players, but you always have the chance of fighting back and some times turning the tide of the battle. In that game we still managed to win the game !

Kim Andersen


Its easy to blame agents/curzes for a defeat, but the fact is that in KS the DS side can actually start the game with two curze ARTIFACTS and Murazor can start with Sickness, so with cooperation the DS side can actually have an operational Curze squad quite quickly. The FP can start with zero curze artifacts, but Quindi has the start option of getting hex for Tinculin.

“I’m curious, how did Eldacar/Rebels, who both lack decent starting mages (40 max), turn themselves into effective artifact hunters? 412 to 428 is a big step”.

Again here experience and a bit of luck comes to play. By turn 6 I had recruited Gandalf, Istar Luin and Radagast the brown…tons of mage skill and mage artifacts for LAT. Furthermore Eldacar had Magor start as 60 mage with teleport from game start and a lot of 30/40 mages from starting characters, so I could quickly research and hunt down the artifacts located !

By turn 21 I had researched almost all of the 292 artifacts and through nation messages told my allied the ID of important artifacts ! This is why I could track important DS characters and kill them with my curze squad.

When I saw I DS army icon at 3110 and was told through nation messages by Horselords that a large Hithlum army was heading towards us, I naturally sent a blocking army to block the Hirthlum army at 3010 and sent my curze squad next. When Adunaphel then showed up at my capital 3012 and revealed it, she was naturally the curze target. When I then cast LAT on the Hirthlum starting agent artifact and learned that it was held by “Sorthed Danka” in the Hirthlum army, he was naturally the next curze target and then the following turn I could finish off the Hirthlum army with the third curze kill :slight_smile:

Especially in GB games Intel gathering is EXTREMELY important and a key component for victory !


I had no idea Arnor were in real trouble. Since they owned three of WKA cities and major towns. They only turned up to transfer artifacts. The Early curse/Emmy squad action cause serious economy and recruiting problems, I was running a 40k deficit most of the game.

I was unable to rebuild anywhere else as we hit the camp limit early and the Elves and KoA were building as quick as any spaces cane up.

We should specify who KS scenario when offering up our views. Kim writes, “so with cooperation the DS side can actually have an operational Curse squad quite quickly.” Not in a GB game. The whole point is to prohibit such resource transfer and direct cooperation. GB games are a very different animal.

Yeah in theory. Although the Loyalists had a few here.

I am not sure what level agents killed Murazor but his combined natural ranks were nearly 250 so I would be interested to know. Killing the did allow the army to take out more Arnor pop centres and it was still alive at end.

I was getting ready to recruit Sauron and Llachlin so I would have had two sickness, curse squads and three of the SM artifacts would need to have found a way to get one or two of them to the SK player

Well there’s lots of things we’re in the process of updating and instead of a halfway house I want us to have it that JO sends in your message and reminds you when it’s time. That’s a fair bit of coding to do. We have a lot of project work on atm so it’s not always just a matter of, “surely you can just do…” as that would mean the full solution won’t get done for a longer time again and it’s already taken ages.

I want us to look at the encounter code, new modules, new variants on current modules, player supported content, new orders, new character classes, army changes/updates etc… So I have to priortise… :slight_smile:

So we’ve made it that it’s simple to remember. If you can name more characters you can send a diplo right? Simple rule to learn.

Assassination/Kidnap do not take into consideration ALL the combined “natural ranks”, as you put it. In my understanding, only the highest base skill rank is considered to calculate the difficulty of killing the target character. So if Murazor had base skill ranks of 80/80/80/90, only the 90 mage rank would count. Might want to check Discord chat to confirm this, but I think it’s right, though you wouldn’t be able to tell that from the description of the Assassinate Character order (615) in the guidebook:

Success is based on the agent and stealth ranks of the assassin, the skill ranks of the target, the relations of the two nations involved, presence of a population centre belonging to the target nation, and the size of army or navy if the target is an army or navy commander.

I can see why you might assume the cumulative, total base skill ranks of the target character apply since the wording above is, “the skill ranks of the target.” Why doesn’t it just say the “highest skill ranking” of the target, since I’ve heard that it is the case.

The rules seem to be more of a ‘guide’

Well I think his natural rank was 80 but if artifacts counted if would have been well over 100. He was also guarded and in my Pop centre. I suspect his stealth didn’t help him much either.

That is correct !
Only the highest skill of the target matters and whether target is;

  • At a friendly pop
  • At a fortified friendly pop
  • Commanding an army
  • At a capital
  • At a hidden pop

All of which makes the Assass/Kidnap attempt harder.

For reference both Murazor and Hoarmurath were non-armycommanders located in a ruin (as WiK destroyed the Arnor pop just before my assassins hit) and the two agents taking involved had the following ranks with artifacts:

Colran: 82A/30S -> Hoarmurath
Needle: 102A/75S -> Murazor

So Murazor only chance of survival would have been to double Needle had he known he was present, if fx enemy agent artifacts had been tracked :wink:


I played Arnor and Rhovanian in the game and struggled. I built up easily enough. I had opted at set up to get Arnor commander Araphor to c90 and then piled command artefacts onto him. My initial plan with Arnor was to recruit at as many centres as possible And concentrate the forces under Araphor and use the army to threaten away the Angmar Major towns.
The initial plans went well, I had gold to ship out and recruitment went well. My first attempt at an NPCs on t3 (Tom bombadil) failed even though I had already upgraded all friendlies and I eventually got him only mid way through the game.
By the time I had gathered 8k troops under Araphor and moved out I was carrying a big but manageable deficit. As Araphor headed north an Angmar army passed me going south and was into my homeland which was denuded of troops and they caused havoc taking my western centres before I could offer serious opposition. Araphor continued on and did capture and hold all the northern centres apart from Mount Gram. Mount Gram I left to my large Rhovanian army which had come across the misty mountains at Goblin town ending at mount gram which it destroyed and then assisting the final Arnor assault on Carn Dum.
However by then the Usurpers hit 1614 and I was having to fend of assaults at both sides of Arnor.
The armies from there pressed on and took my 2 major towns below my capital despite me sending blocking armies south. By then my f8nances were a shambles running massive deficits with both nations. That meant I only had a limited amount to support each other. Arnor was worse having lost all his start cities/major towns apart from the capital, although by this stage I had taken 3 MTs from Angmar.
I had some luck however, the turn after I lost 1614 I moved my emissary company in with Tom Bombadil scouting for characters. I found only a seed army there which prevented influence but Tom’s scout revealed Rebel agents there so I managed to double 2 of them which gave me good intel after that.
As well as finances been crippled my camps and villages had fallen in loyalty to the point that they were starting to degrade so I had no alternative but drop taxes to keep my producing centres. I needed new characters as well as my commanders were getting assassinated. There was an enemy agent company touring my centres and when not Assassinating were emptying my treasury so whilst I was just able to sell to meet the deficit I often had no gold left at the create character segment.
I had not named any mages as I was running a military emissary game. My only decent mage had 2 orders every turn one to palantir Angmar territory for major towns and army build up and 1 to track ring of Aran on a Moreland agent. (I got the artefact number early via nation diplo) he was always on one of my centres.
The game turned for me about 3 or 4 turns before the end when I had blunted the enemy assaults. Allies had clearly latched on to the fact I was in trouble via diplo and I had received around 3 gold shipments. By game end I had retaken all my original centres and eliminated the last Angmar army in my homeland, held onto my Angmar conquests and was within a turn of intercepting the one surviving Angmar army that had been camp bashing in my southern territory with my Rhovanian army.
Angmar played a very good game in my area. It was touch and go at one point but I survived and was coming out the other side.
Rhovanian recruited like crazy through the game. Initial armies went north against Angmar and their biggest army went across the misties.
Heavy recruitment around my capital meant on a couple of occasions sent huge armies south (8k on the first occasion). Took Morannon and pressed into Mordor but on both occasions met massive enemy armies and made little headway but as a result my home territory was never really threatened apart from the last few turns when a large Hithlum army approached from the north. I ran a number of blocking armies north delaying their approach and they pulled back just before game end having been blunted.
However never got any NPCs with Rhovanian and lost 3 or 4 characters to enemy encounters including my only agent and my champion. Just bad luck.
Diplos were a god send. I got lots of intel as my allies were including artefact numbers, ids of enemy characters, centres taken and or lost.
Overall a really enjoyable game but really tough.

Hi Mike

I thought it was going ok until.a combination of Araphor as the Elves Curse/Emmy squad emerged. I had to throw my armies at you and try to rip out your economic base. I couldn’t afford to recruit at home as I got quite a few commanders cursed and some were being held hostage. That’s why nothing came to intercept Araphor. Anyone I tried to get troops with got cursed.

Nice to have allies send you stuff. I did ask but nothing ever turned up so I was reliant on Morlaen to fund my armies. Starting in Winter the WKA makes absolutely nothing.


Hi all!

I shared 4/6 with Marty Cinke, with me playing 4. Horselords were under pressure right from the start, Hith did a pretty good job on containing me up to the point where I tore down the bridges over the river running, kudos to the Hith player for that. From that point, I was making progress pushing Hith slowly back at the sea of Rhun, despite him kidnapping some of my comms. Gold infusions from Quendi and three mages continually casting conjure mounts enabled me to hire hc at my capital most of the time, plus I had taken a setup option to make 3512 a MT, meaning I could hire 900 hi and 500 hc per turn. But I was running out of comms eventually, so I wouldn’t have held out much longer without character support, but that was on the way shortly before game end. Plus my emmies had reached a skill where they could work against Hith pop centers.

Since turn 18 we had two curse squads running but decided that their priority was hitting WRA/LoM which seemed to put heavy pressure on KoA. They cursed some WRA comms and they took out Ji finally – so that’s not your credit Kim :wink:. One of the squads was about to move to Hith mainland when the game ended.

After some painful experiences in a KS game against the Huiatts, we knew that the hidden Quendi MT at 2137 can be a real pain if ignored by the DS. Amroth has too high a skill to be assassinated easily and RPC is about the hardest spell to cast in the game. When the navy retreated finally and ran into SKs ships on t 17, we thought that would be the end of Amroth, but somehow the navy wasn’t attacked and could continue the guerrilla warfare.

Despite the final outcome, Marty and me had a pretty bad start at recruiting NPCs. It started with the Rebels snatching Gandalf from us, which from our point of view slowed down the process of building the second curse squad a lot. It wasn’t before t 8 that we recruited Saruman – we had repeatedly missed him - and Losspindel. To support the Quendi agents, we desperately tried to recruit a NPC which would give us double scout, but neither Meneldor (teleport) nor the hobbits (both gave conjure food) helped, and all others were taken.

As a final note, I have to say that Marty and me have a fair amount of KS experience, I remember the game when it was in a kind of beta status, full of bugs, but also full of potential. But despite some rather obvious things, like importance of NPCs and some setup choices we have tried, I wouldn’t say that this puts us in a better position than any player with a decent overall MEPBM skill.



Combined with others your Curse and Emmy Squads got me down to single figure PCs and Characters. I was quite surprised it took you so long to turn up at my new Capital after my starting one fell.

It only had a loyalty of 21 and I fully expected a curse and emmisary taking it for ages