Last Alliance: nation changes

The Last Alliance, mepbm variant.

STATS: In order to maintain game balance (or perhaps that should be a
familiar imbalance!) I have taken the stats of the 1650 scenario and juggled
them to fit LA. All such juggling has been either within nation, or between
nations of the same allegiance. I have not taken stats from one allegiance
and awarded them to another. Therefore, the tax base, army strength and
constitution, and total character stats, for each allegiance, are very close
to 1650, altho there are lots of differences between 1650 nations and those
of LA.

NAMES: when Tolkien gives a 'new' name for a person or place in LA I have
used it; however such names are rare. A surprisingly large number of pops
and immortal characters survived LA into 3rd Age, whilst all races, to some
degree, recycled the same names generation after generation. Therefore, do
not be surprised to see names in LA which you recognize from 1650. They are
not necessarily the same people! I have added some new names, particularly
for the 'new' nations, but I did not want to be immodest enough to do this
across the board.

LA NATION LIST (where changes not mentioned, those aspects of the nation
much like 1650):

1) Woodmen: pops and army much like 1650, but given a combat art, and top
character has been beefed up so that even if he can't single-handedly cut a
swathe thru hostile armies like Beorn at the Battle of 5 armies, at least he
stands a fair chance in challenge against orc leaders. Also given mage
skill and access to conjure food (the way Beorn fed Thorin & co demands
nothing less) in place of challenge bonus.

2) Northmen: lose pops around Dale and Rhun to new nations, but compensated
by other pops further north, which puts them well out of reach of any DS
armies. Lose shipbuilding bonus but gain SA 7 (4th Age list): armies
without food etc.

3) Eothraim: as 1650 except for minor changes to character stats. It's
interesting that the location of Eothraim both in LA and 1650 rests upon a
single (long!) sentence in Unfinished Tales: 'They were a remnant of the
Northmen, who had formerly been a numerous and powerful confederation of
peoples living in the wide plains between Mirkwood and the River Running,
great breeders of horses and riders renowned for their skill and endurance,
though their settled homes were in the eaves of the Forest, and especially
in the East Bight, which had largely been made by their felling of trees.'

4) North Kingdom: embraces lands later held by Arthedain, Cardolan and
Rhudaur. Includes pops from the first two and one or two surprises if you
haven't studied the books. A first-rate economic and military power.
Headed by Elendil the Tall, his family and household: all new characters.

5) Silvan Elves: like the 2950 nation, but bigger and better. SAs 7 & 14
sacrificed for x2 to scout/recon orders.

6) Dale: new nation of Northmen race. All pops at/near the Long Lake or
connecting waterways. All new characters, SAs 8 = 20% adjustment to market,
9 = new emis at 40. Army/navy much like 1650 Nor.

7) South Kingdom: territorially embraces the whole of what was later N & S
Gondor. Holds many pops which in1650 belonged to either NG or SG but which
still may not be enough if the combined DS launch a determined, co-ordinated
pre-emptive strike. All characters are changed from 1650 for historical
reasons, and the 1650 SA name new mages at 40 is swapped for new commanders
at 40.

8) Dwarves are much as in 1650, except they have a starting mage (Tolkien is
very clear Dwarves DO have access to magic) and they can Conjure food. How
else d'you think they supported city-sized populations in mountains which
produce no food?

9) Sindar: lose some 1650 pops to Silvans, but are compensated elsewhere.
Note their realm at the time of LA also extends over the forest EAST of the
Anduin (including where afterwards was Dol Guldur). The King of Lorien is
Amdir, but the most powerful characters are Galadriel and Celeborn, who with
their daughter Celebrian indulge in the traditional Elven activity of
'wandering' so who knows where they will start?

10) Noldor: much like 1650, only stronger; therefore have bigger starting
armies and more pops to support them. I was loth to increase the Noldor
power except the LA script demanded it. Hopefully it will give the Noldo
player more problems than answers. In 1650 it's a fairly straightforward
decision to disband most troops and concentrate on a character war. In LA
Noldo have a bigger army and pop base and their allies are looking to them
to lead by example!

11 & 12 Witch-king and Dragon-lord. At the time of LA, neither of them had
yet established realms outside Mordor. Therefore, Witch-king and Dragon
lord, like the other Nazgul at the time of LA, have their realms inside
Mordor. Their power like the rest of the Mordor nations is similar to 1650.
Dragon lord, as befits his title, has a dragon in his entourage; some small
compensation for the absence of any other dragon in the scenario.

13-19 see little if any change from 1650.

20) Dark Lord: The big change is that in LA this nation is now the nation of
the Dark Lord and includes Sauron himself. The nation loses Urzahil, and
some of the lesser minions lose a few points in order to make Sauron
formidable but not invincible.

21) Black Numenoreans: this nation is the predecessor of the 1650 Corsairs,
and has similar strengths, territory and characteristics, except a weaker
navy. This nation is pre-aligned DS.

22) Harad: this nation is the predecessor of the 1650 nation of the same
name. The differences are, in LA its armies should start from much further
south than in 1650. There is NO justification in Tolkien for Harad having a
navy at any time, but just for the sake of variety and excitement, LA allows
Harad a small navy. This nation is pre-aligned DS.

23) Dunlendings: this nation is much as in 1650. Having been ravaged by
Sauron's armies during the War of the Elves v Sauron earlier in the 2nd Age,
the Duns are unlikely to be drawn in on Sauron's side so soon afterwards.
Moreover surrounded as they are by FP, North Kingdom to the North, Elves and
Dwarves to the east, and South Kingdom to the south, every strategic
instinct tells Duns to declare FP rather than DS.

24) Dorwinion: This nation replaces Rhuduar from 1650, except, the location
is totally different. Dorwinion was a nation on the shores of Rhun which
sent wine to the Silvan Elves and by implication, traded with Dwarves and
Men of other races also. The parallel between Dorwinion and the city-states
established by Swedish vikings in Slavic Russia is striking. I visualise
Dorwinion in LA as a rich city-state ruled by a Norse aristocracy slowly
getting absorbed by the predominant Easterling population. At the time of
LA, and indeed right up to the time of the War of the Ring, the economic
benefits of trade with the 'western' world kept Dorwinion firmly on the side
of the FP.

25) Easterlings: have lost a few pops around the sea of Rhun from 1650.
They hadn't penetrated that far by LA so I've pushed them as far back as
possible without pushing them right off the map (which they ought to be!).
They are the same strength as in 1650 and are firmly on the side of the DS.

Richard.

Ok, I'm a little confused here, what exactly is Last Alliance?

The Last Alliance, mepbm variant.

STATS: In order to maintain game balance (or perhaps that should be a
familiar imbalance!) I have taken the stats of the 1650 scenario and

juggled

them to fit LA. All such juggling has been either within nation, or

between

nations of the same allegiance. I have not taken stats from one

allegiance

and awarded them to another. Therefore, the tax base, army strength and
constitution, and total character stats, for each allegiance, are very

close

to 1650, altho there are lots of differences between 1650 nations and

those

of LA.

NAMES: when Tolkien gives a 'new' name for a person or place in LA I have
used it; however such names are rare. A surprisingly large number of pops
and immortal characters survived LA into 3rd Age, whilst all races, to

some

degree, recycled the same names generation after generation. Therefore,

do

not be surprised to see names in LA which you recognize from 1650. They

are

not necessarily the same people! I have added some new names,

particularly

for the 'new' nations, but I did not want to be immodest enough to do this
across the board.

LA NATION LIST (where changes not mentioned, those aspects of the nation
much like 1650):

1) Woodmen: pops and army much like 1650, but given a combat art, and top
character has been beefed up so that even if he can't single-handedly cut

a

swathe thru hostile armies like Beorn at the Battle of 5 armies, at least

he

stands a fair chance in challenge against orc leaders. Also given mage
skill and access to conjure food (the way Beorn fed Thorin & co demands
nothing less) in place of challenge bonus.

2) Northmen: lose pops around Dale and Rhun to new nations, but

compensated

by other pops further north, which puts them well out of reach of any DS
armies. Lose shipbuilding bonus but gain SA 7 (4th Age list): armies
without food etc.

3) Eothraim: as 1650 except for minor changes to character stats. It's
interesting that the location of Eothraim both in LA and 1650 rests upon a
single (long!) sentence in Unfinished Tales: 'They were a remnant of the
Northmen, who had formerly been a numerous and powerful confederation of
peoples living in the wide plains between Mirkwood and the River Running,
great breeders of horses and riders renowned for their skill and

endurance,

though their settled homes were in the eaves of the Forest, and especially
in the East Bight, which had largely been made by their felling of trees.'

4) North Kingdom: embraces lands later held by Arthedain, Cardolan and
Rhudaur. Includes pops from the first two and one or two surprises if you
haven't studied the books. A first-rate economic and military power.
Headed by Elendil the Tall, his family and household: all new characters.

5) Silvan Elves: like the 2950 nation, but bigger and better. SAs 7 & 14
sacrificed for x2 to scout/recon orders.

6) Dale: new nation of Northmen race. All pops at/near the Long Lake or
connecting waterways. All new characters, SAs 8 = 20% adjustment to

market,

9 = new emis at 40. Army/navy much like 1650 Nor.

7) South Kingdom: territorially embraces the whole of what was later N & S
Gondor. Holds many pops which in1650 belonged to either NG or SG but

which

still may not be enough if the combined DS launch a determined,

co-ordinated

pre-emptive strike. All characters are changed from 1650 for historical
reasons, and the 1650 SA name new mages at 40 is swapped for new

commanders

at 40.

8) Dwarves are much as in 1650, except they have a starting mage (Tolkien

is

very clear Dwarves DO have access to magic) and they can Conjure food.

How

else d'you think they supported city-sized populations in mountains which
produce no food?

9) Sindar: lose some 1650 pops to Silvans, but are compensated elsewhere.
Note their realm at the time of LA also extends over the forest EAST of

the

Anduin (including where afterwards was Dol Guldur). The King of Lorien is
Amdir, but the most powerful characters are Galadriel and Celeborn, who

with

their daughter Celebrian indulge in the traditional Elven activity of
'wandering' so who knows where they will start?

10) Noldor: much like 1650, only stronger; therefore have bigger starting
armies and more pops to support them. I was loth to increase the Noldor
power except the LA script demanded it. Hopefully it will give the Noldo
player more problems than answers. In 1650 it's a fairly straightforward
decision to disband most troops and concentrate on a character war. In LA
Noldo have a bigger army and pop base and their allies are looking to them
to lead by example!

11 & 12 Witch-king and Dragon-lord. At the time of LA, neither of them

had

yet established realms outside Mordor. Therefore, Witch-king and Dragon
lord, like the other Nazgul at the time of LA, have their realms inside
Mordor. Their power like the rest of the Mordor nations is similar to

1650.

Dragon lord, as befits his title, has a dragon in his entourage; some

small

compensation for the absence of any other dragon in the scenario.

13-19 see little if any change from 1650.

20) Dark Lord: The big change is that in LA this nation is now the nation

of

the Dark Lord and includes Sauron himself. The nation loses Urzahil, and
some of the lesser minions lose a few points in order to make Sauron
formidable but not invincible.

21) Black Numenoreans: this nation is the predecessor of the 1650

Corsairs,

and has similar strengths, territory and characteristics, except a weaker
navy. This nation is pre-aligned DS.

22) Harad: this nation is the predecessor of the 1650 nation of the same
name. The differences are, in LA its armies should start from much

further

south than in 1650. There is NO justification in Tolkien for Harad having

a

navy at any time, but just for the sake of variety and excitement, LA

allows

Harad a small navy. This nation is pre-aligned DS.

23) Dunlendings: this nation is much as in 1650. Having been ravaged by
Sauron's armies during the War of the Elves v Sauron earlier in the 2nd

Age,

the Duns are unlikely to be drawn in on Sauron's side so soon afterwards.
Moreover surrounded as they are by FP, North Kingdom to the North, Elves

and

Dwarves to the east, and South Kingdom to the south, every strategic
instinct tells Duns to declare FP rather than DS.

24) Dorwinion: This nation replaces Rhuduar from 1650, except, the

location

is totally different. Dorwinion was a nation on the shores of Rhun which
sent wine to the Silvan Elves and by implication, traded with Dwarves and
Men of other races also. The parallel between Dorwinion and the

city-states

established by Swedish vikings in Slavic Russia is striking. I visualise
Dorwinion in LA as a rich city-state ruled by a Norse aristocracy slowly
getting absorbed by the predominant Easterling population. At the time of
LA, and indeed right up to the time of the War of the Ring, the economic
benefits of trade with the 'western' world kept Dorwinion firmly on the

side

of the FP.

25) Easterlings: have lost a few pops around the sea of Rhun from 1650.
They hadn't penetrated that far by LA so I've pushed them as far back as
possible without pushing them right off the map (which they ought to be!).
They are the same strength as in 1650 and are firmly on the side of the

DS.

···

Richard.

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--- Ricksha <ricksha@ramcell.net> wrote: > Ok, I'm a
little confused here, what exactly is Last

Alliance?

that's when men and elves last fought together in
great numbers against sauron.

Men and elves fought together in the first age, and in
the second.

But in the third age (the LoTR time period), it was
the men who did the fighting. And it was NG who
complained that they were the only ones who did most
of the fighting for the men (maybe they said 'all the
fighting', but I do feel some sympathy for NG, so I
assume they were more polite and they said 'most').

The elves retreated to their hidden pop centres and
didn't come out in the third age.

The sindar and silvan did so some fighting in the
third age, but they didn't invite the men (I think the
woodies might have helped out, but since they didn't
help in great numbers it wasn't counted as a
alliance).

God only knows what the noldor did. Rumours of ladies
underware and tied up sheep kept on being told about
their behaviour, but who knows ?

:slight_smile: (I have no sympathy for the noldor in case you
missed it).

thanks
din

> The Last Alliance, mepbm variant.
>
> STATS: In order to maintain game balance (or
perhaps that should be a
> familiar imbalance!) I have taken the stats of the
1650 scenario and
juggled
> them to fit LA. All such juggling has been either
within nation, or
between
> nations of the same allegiance. I have not taken
stats from one
allegiance
> and awarded them to another. Therefore, the tax
base, army strength and
> constitution, and total character stats, for each
allegiance, are very
close
> to 1650, altho there are lots of differences
between 1650 nations and
those
> of LA.
>
> NAMES: when Tolkien gives a 'new' name for a
person or place in LA I have
> used it; however such names are rare. A
surprisingly large number of pops
> and immortal characters survived LA into 3rd Age,
whilst all races, to
some
> degree, recycled the same names generation after
generation. Therefore,
do
> not be surprised to see names in LA which you
recognize from 1650. They
are
> not necessarily the same people! I have added
some new names,
particularly
> for the 'new' nations, but I did not want to be
immodest enough to do this
> across the board.
>
> LA NATION LIST (where changes not mentioned, those
aspects of the nation
> much like 1650):
>
> 1) Woodmen: pops and army much like 1650, but
given a combat art, and top
> character has been beefed up so that even if he
can't single-handedly cut
a
> swathe thru hostile armies like Beorn at the
Battle of 5 armies, at least
he
> stands a fair chance in challenge against orc
leaders. Also given mage
> skill and access to conjure food (the way Beorn
fed Thorin & co demands
> nothing less) in place of challenge bonus.
>
> 2) Northmen: lose pops around Dale and Rhun to new
nations, but
compensated
> by other pops further north, which puts them well
out of reach of any DS
> armies. Lose shipbuilding bonus but gain SA 7
(4th Age list): armies
> without food etc.
>
> 3) Eothraim: as 1650 except for minor changes to
character stats. It's
> interesting that the location of Eothraim both in
LA and 1650 rests upon a
> single (long!) sentence in Unfinished Tales: 'They
were a remnant of the
> Northmen, who had formerly been a numerous and
powerful confederation of
> peoples living in the wide plains between Mirkwood
and the River Running,
> great breeders of horses and riders renowned for
their skill and
endurance,
> though their settled homes were in the eaves of
the Forest, and especially
> in the East Bight, which had largely been made by
their felling of trees.'
>
> 4) North Kingdom: embraces lands later held by
Arthedain, Cardolan and
> Rhudaur. Includes pops from the first two and one
or two surprises if you
> haven't studied the books. A first-rate economic
and military power.
> Headed by Elendil the Tall, his family and
household: all new characters.
>
> 5) Silvan Elves: like the 2950 nation, but bigger
and better. SAs 7 & 14
> sacrificed for x2 to scout/recon orders.
>
> 6) Dale: new nation of Northmen race. All pops
at/near the Long Lake or
> connecting waterways. All new characters, SAs 8 =
20% adjustment to
market,
> 9 = new emis at 40. Army/navy much like 1650 Nor.
>
> 7) South Kingdom: territorially embraces the whole
of what was later N & S
> Gondor. Holds many pops which in1650 belonged to
either NG or SG but
which
> still may not be enough if the combined DS launch
a determined,
co-ordinated
> pre-emptive strike. All characters are changed
from 1650 for historical
> reasons, and the 1650 SA name new mages at 40 is
swapped for new
commanders
> at 40.
>
> 8) Dwarves are much as in 1650, except they have a
starting mage (Tolkien
is
> very clear Dwarves DO have access to magic) and
they can Conjure food.
How
> else d'you think they supported city-sized
populations in mountains which
> produce no food?
>
> 9) Sindar: lose some 1650 pops to Silvans, but are
compensated elsewhere.
> Note their realm at the time of LA also extends
over the forest EAST of
the
> Anduin (including where afterwards was Dol
Guldur). The King of Lorien is
> Amdir, but the most powerful characters are
Galadriel and Celeborn, who
with
> their daughter Celebrian indulge in the
traditional Elven activity of
> 'wandering' so who knows where they will start?
>
> 10) Noldor: much like 1650, only stronger;
therefore have bigger starting
> armies and more pops to support them. I was loth
to increase the Noldor
> power except the LA script demanded it. Hopefully
it will give the Noldo
> player more problems than answers. In 1650 it's a
fairly straightforward
> decision to disband most troops and concentrate on
a character war. In LA
> Noldo have a bigger army and pop base and their
allies are looking to them
> to lead by example!
>
> 11 & 12 Witch-king and Dragon-lord. At the time
of LA, neither of them
had
> yet established realms outside Mordor. Therefore,
Witch-king and Dragon
> lord, like the other Nazgul at the time of LA,
have their realms inside
> Mordor. Their power like the rest of the Mordor
nations is similar to
1650.
> Dragon lord, as befits his title, has a dragon in
his entourage; some
small
> compensation for the absence of any other dragon
in the scenario.
>
> 13-19 see little if any change from 1650.
>
> 20) Dark Lord: The big change is that in LA this
nation is now the nation
of
> the Dark Lord and includes Sauron himself. The
nation loses Urzahil, and
> some of the lesser minions lose a few points in
order to make Sauron
> formidable but not invincible.
>
> 21) Black Numenoreans: this nation is the
predecessor of the 1650
Corsairs,
> and has similar strengths, territory and
characteristics, except a weaker
> navy. This nation is pre-aligned DS.
>
> 22) Harad: this nation is the predecessor of the
1650 nation of the same
> name. The differences are, in LA its armies
should start from much
further
> south than in 1650. There is NO justification in
Tolkien for Harad having
a
> navy at any time, but just for the sake of variety
and excitement, LA
allows
> Harad a small navy. This nation is pre-aligned
DS.
>
> 23) Dunlendings: this nation is much as in 1650.
Having been ravaged by
> Sauron's armies during the War of the Elves v
Sauron earlier in the 2nd
Age,
> the Duns are unlikely to be drawn in on Sauron's
side so soon afterwards.
> Moreover surrounded as they are by FP, North
Kingdom to the North, Elves
and
> Dwarves to the east, and South Kingdom to the
south, every strategic
> instinct tells Duns to declare FP rather than DS.
>
> 24) Dorwinion: This nation replaces Rhuduar from
1650, except, the
location
> is totally different. Dorwinion was a nation on
the shores of Rhun which
> sent wine to the Silvan Elves and by implication,
traded with Dwarves and
> Men of other races also. The parallel between
Dorwinion and the
city-states
> established by Swedish vikings in Slavic Russia is
striking. I visualise
> Dorwinion in LA as a rich city-state ruled by a
Norse aristocracy slowly
> getting absorbed by the predominant Easterling
population. At the time of
> LA, and indeed right up to the time of the War of
the Ring, the economic
> benefits of trade with the 'western' world kept
Dorwinion firmly on the
side
> of the FP.
>
> 25) Easterlings: have lost a few pops around the
sea of Rhun from 1650.
> They hadn't penetrated that far by LA so I've
pushed them as far back as
> possible without pushing them right off the map
(which they ought to be!).
> They are the same strength as in 1650 and are
firmly on the side of the
DS.
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
> Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin
Games
> To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
> http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Ok, let me try this a different way, is the post about it a hypothetical
discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the Last Alliance?

Good info though.

Thanks,

Jeremy

···

little confused here, what exactly is Last
> Alliance?
>

that's when men and elves last fought together in
great numbers against sauron.

Men and elves fought together in the first age, and in
the second.

But in the third age (the LoTR time period), it was
the men who did the fighting. And it was NG who
complained that they were the only ones who did most
of the fighting for the men (maybe they said 'all the
fighting', but I do feel some sympathy for NG, so I
assume they were more polite and they said 'most').

The elves retreated to their hidden pop centres and
didn't come out in the third age.

The sindar and silvan did so some fighting in the
third age, but they didn't invite the men (I think the
woodies might have helped out, but since they didn't
help in great numbers it wasn't counted as a
alliance).

God only knows what the noldor did. Rumours of ladies
underware and tied up sheep kept on being told about
their behaviour, but who knows ?

:slight_smile: (I have no sympathy for the noldor in case you
missed it).

thanks
din

--- Ricksha <ricksha@ramcell.net> wrote: > Ok, let me
try this a different way, is the post

about it a hypothetical
discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the
Last Alliance?

its a new scenario - like the War of the Ring scenario
which is 2950 g29 (BTW richard also set up that).

I expect that clint will soon ask if anyone wants to
play in this game.

thanks
din

Good info though.

Thanks,

Jeremy

> little confused here, what exactly is Last
> > Alliance?
> >
>
> that's when men and elves last fought together in
> great numbers against sauron.
>
> Men and elves fought together in the first age,
and in
> the second.
>
> But in the third age (the LoTR time period), it
was
> the men who did the fighting. And it was NG who
> complained that they were the only ones who did
most
> of the fighting for the men (maybe they said 'all
the
> fighting', but I do feel some sympathy for NG, so
I
> assume they were more polite and they said
'most').
>
> The elves retreated to their hidden pop centres
and
> didn't come out in the third age.
>
> The sindar and silvan did so some fighting in the
> third age, but they didn't invite the men (I think
the
> woodies might have helped out, but since they
didn't
> help in great numbers it wasn't counted as a
> alliance).
>
> God only knows what the noldor did. Rumours of
ladies
> underware and tied up sheep kept on being told
about
> their behaviour, but who knows ?
>
> :slight_smile: (I have no sympathy for the noldor in case you
> missed it).
>
> thanks
> din
>
>

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---------------------~-~>
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in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million
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high school alumni--chances are you'll find your
friends!

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---------------------------------------------------------------------_->

···

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Games
To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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What is the difference between a 2950 game and the War of the Rings scenario??

Kurgan

Din wrote:

···

--- Ricksha <ricksha@ramcell.net> wrote: > Ok, let me
try this a different way, is the post
> about it a hypothetical
> discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the
> Last Alliance?

its a new scenario - like the War of the Ring scenario
which is 2950 g29 (BTW richard also set up that).

I expect that clint will soon ask if anyone wants to
play in this game.

thanks
din

>
> Good info though.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> > little confused here, what exactly is Last
> > > Alliance?
> > >
> >
> > that's when men and elves last fought together in
> > great numbers against sauron.
> >
> > Men and elves fought together in the first age,
> and in
> > the second.
> >
> > But in the third age (the LoTR time period), it
> was
> > the men who did the fighting. And it was NG who
> > complained that they were the only ones who did
> most
> > of the fighting for the men (maybe they said 'all
> the
> > fighting', but I do feel some sympathy for NG, so
> I
> > assume they were more polite and they said
> 'most').
> >
> > The elves retreated to their hidden pop centres
> and
> > didn't come out in the third age.
> >
> > The sindar and silvan did so some fighting in the
> > third age, but they didn't invite the men (I think
> the
> > woodies might have helped out, but since they
> didn't
> > help in great numbers it wasn't counted as a
> > alliance).
> >
> > God only knows what the noldor did. Rumours of
> ladies
> > underware and tied up sheep kept on being told
> about
> > their behaviour, but who knows ?
> >
> > :slight_smile: (I have no sympathy for the noldor in case you
> > missed it).
> >
> > thanks
> > din
> >
> >
>
>
>
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--- kurgan <kurgan@olp.net> wrote: > What is the
difference between a 2950 game and the

War of the Rings scenario??

Kurgan

War of the Ring Variant 2950 Game

Here is the full list of Population Centre and changes
in the War of the Ring variant game of 2950.

Can you please check your turnsheets throughly as this
was all done by hand so somethings may have
been missed or messed up.

In addition the DS have the following extra armies:

Dog Lord + 500 HC @ @3221
Drgon Lord + 1000 HI @ 2715
WK (in the North)+ 1000 HI @ 2305
Fire King + 1000 HI @3224
Murazor to 60 Commander.

Here are the changes to transform 2950 into War of the
Ring. Most are pop changes. Fortifications,
ports/harbours, 'hidden', all stay as in 2950,
regardless of changes to the pop, UNLESS otherwise
stated.
Example: 2950 has the pop at 6360 as
village/fort/harbour. If I ask 6360 to be changed to a
MT, the
fort/harbour remain unless otherwise specified.

2) All DS to receive an extra 15k gold in their
starting treasuries.

3) Nation by nation:
Nation 1 WOODMEN change:
2712 to village
2613 to village
Add:
2605 Waetan's Lodge camp Hidden
2411 Eorcan camp
2615 Vidus camp
2611 Buhr Ceorl village
Characters: Change ranks as follows:
Beorn C60 A20 E0 M50 St15.
Beorn should also be given a Conjuring
artifact, preferably a weapon. Reason: at the
Battle of 5 armies Beorn fought his way thru
the entire goblin host to kill the 'Great Goblin'
Bolg, so must have greater challenge rank
than Bolg. Previously Beorn had supplied
Thorin and company with food and mounts,
pretty remarkable when nobody else was
around, hence the Conjuring artifact.
EITHER Beoraborn or Waulfa should have his
mage rank increased to 40.
Beorn must have an apprentice to pass the
Conjuring artifact to!

Nation 2 NORTHMEN change:
3109 MT/T
Add:
3105 Buhr Tharusaig T/T
3110 Londaroth village
3712 Kardavan V/T
4015 Scari town
3612 Buhr Marling T/T/H

Nation 3 RIDERS OF ROHAN change:
2421 T/T
2321 city/castle
2121 MT/K
Add:
2120 camp/tower Tolburg
2320 town Feldham
2319 village Norgarth
2422 camp Eordene
2521 camp Widburg

Nation 4 DUNADAN RANGERS change:
1109 town
Add:
1607 village Archet
1508 village Combe
1608 village Staddle

Nation 5 SILVAN ELVES change:
2908 city
2608 town
2915 village
2709 town
Add:
3009 Village Hithgalen
2911 town Baraglas
2913 village Belegorn
2807 village Arduin
3014 village Belgalen

Nation 6 NORTHERN GONDOR change:
2926 MT
3024 MT
2927 city
Add:
3028 T/F Tir Barath
3129 T/T Tir Sarnath
2824 vil Mindolluin
2723 vil Calenhad
2923 camp Norrick
2925 camp Southcote
2623 town Halifirien
2722 town Minrimmon
2724 vil Erelas
2823 vil Eilenach

7) SOUTHERN GONDOR:
Please make the following changes:
2425 town
2626 town/tower
2223 MT/F
2225 town
Please add the following:
2324 Glanhir town/tower
2327 Cirith Durandir town/tower
2328 Endil town/tower
2424 Calembel town/tower
2426 Nan Requian town
2828 Erui village
1825 Sargond village
1925 Barfirien village
1726 Barfalas village
1824 Pinnath Gelin town

8) DWARVES:
Please change as follows:
0812 town
Please add:
0605 Telenaug town/tower
0811 Zagragathol village/tower
2904 Norr-dum town/fort
3002 Celeb-ost town/fort

9) SINDA ELVES;
Please change as follows:
2514 city/fort/ HIDDEN
2413 town HIDDEN
2325 town HIDDEN
2314 village HIDDEN
Please add:
2713 Brethilbar camp
2513 Galenach camp

10) NOLDO ELVES
Please change as follows:
0810 town HIDDEN
0708 MT/F
Please add:
0611 Harlond MT/F
0808 Galenros village
0508 Lanthir Lamath village

11) WITCH-KING
PLease change as follows:
2006 MT/F
Please add:
3226 Karanarth town/tower
2703 Kala Dulukurth town/fort
2308 Gothburzum village/tower
2217 Ashkrim village/tower
2303 Gulgash Village/tower
Characters:
Please change as follows:
Blogath C10 M40
Bolg C30(60) E30 (artifacts #67 and #68 as
before)
Rogrog C30
Murazor: increase command rank to 60, all
other stats as in 2950. See Woodies for
reasons for these; also as Witch-king is trying
to regain his former Influence in this area, his
viceroy, Bolg, needs emi skill. This plus
giving him an extra character with command
skill compensates him for downgrading the
comm skill of Bolg & Rogrog.

12) DRAGON LORD
Please change as follows:
2409 town/fort
2809 town/fort HIDDEN
Please add:
2919 Gorghash village/tower
2817 Lug Ghastoth village/tower
4027 Lug Burzluk MT/T/port (I hope Rob
likes this one!)

13) DOG LORD
No changes but please add:
3121 Lag Rabiz camp
3322 Lag Zaliva camp

14) CLOUD LORD
No changes but please add:
3629 Kul Tarkoul town/tower

15) BLIND SORCEROR
Please change as follows:
4025 town/tower
Please add:
3928 Zarok Ioriag camp

16) ICE KING
Change 3223 to MT/T
Please add:
3125 Lag-Shemat camp
3126 Lag-Majakul camp

17) QUIET AVENGER
Please change as follows:
3437 village/tower
3234 village/tower
Please add:
3430 Cirith Burzash village/tower
3331 Lug Bugrohak camp
3634 Lag Hagluk camp

18) FIRE KING
Please change as follows:
3426 MT
Please add:
3325 Lag-Flaksharbtur camp
3427 Lag-Burghash village
3526 Lag-Ashgul village

19) LONG RIDER
No changes, please add:
4121 Thrakrimghash town

20) DARK LIEUTENANTS
Please change as follows:
3423 city/citadel
3621 town
3622 MT/castle
3120 town
Please add:
3525 Lag-Gulghoth village
3422 Lag-Fhauga camp
3723 Cirith Mormuz camp

21) CORSAIRS
Please change as follows:
2438 city/castle
Please add:
2339 Pellardur town
2535 Sukh Akhor town/tower/harbour
2835 An Zalim town
3037 Sukh Ida town

22) RHUN EASTERLINGS
Please change as follows:
4318 MT/F CAPITAL
4014 village/tower
The reason for moving the capital is that I
find it inconceivable that the Easterlings
would build their capital next door to the
Northmen capital, or that the Northmen would
permit them to do so.
Please add:
4408 Kargrod town
4411 Volnograd town

23) DUNLENDINGS
Please change as follows:
1720 village
1916 village
Please add:
1721 Nashdrim camp
1822 Calfarran camp
1618 Screggan town

24) WHITE WIZARD
Please change as follows:
2119 city/citadel
No adds.

25) KHAND EASTERLINGS
Please change as follows:
4430 town
Please add:
4339 Morkova town
4326 An Dankiev camp/tower

I think the DS are winning this game at the moment.I
hope to take part in a version 2 (some of things could
have been done better - like forgetting to add food to
the new armies).

thanks
din

···

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This is a scenario that we have availble to play.

Clint

···

Ok, let me try this a different way, is the post about it a hypothetical
discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the Last Alliance?

Jeremy

Oh go on then... any takers. We hope to get Bree out later this week which
has the Last Alliance info in that.

Clint

···

its a new scenario - like the War of the Ring scenario
which is 2950 g29 (BTW richard also set up that).

I expect that clint will soon ask if anyone wants to
play in this game.

2950 is the normal game with WoTR a variant of that with increased PCs etc.
There is agem going on at present.

Clint

What is the difference between a 2950 game and the War of the Rings

scenario??

···

Kurgan

Din wrote:

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@M...> wrote:

Oh go on then... any takers. We hope to get Bree out later

this week which has the Last Alliance info in that.

I'm in! preferably the North Kingdom (Arnor), Sindar or Noldo :slight_smile:

Øystein (account 103353)

--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...> wrote:

The Last Alliance, mepbm variant.

Just to clarify: this is a 13-12 match? Or is it a 13-10 match with
two neutrals?

Also, with all of the dark in Mordor, it would seem doubtful that
large starting armies in the far north would see a lot of action...

cheers,

Marc

Ok, let me try this a different way, is the post about it a hypothetical
discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the Last Alliance?

Good info though.

Thanks,

Jeremy

RD: Hi Jeremy,

Last Alliance is a new variant of ME. I believe I've sent Harlequin all the
info they need (if not, I'm sure they will tell me!).

If you are interested, please let Harlequin know with a copy to me also.

Thanks,

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricksha" <ricksha@ramcell.net>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance: nation changes

> little confused here, what exactly is Last
> > Alliance?
> >
>
> that's when men and elves last fought together in
> great numbers against sauron.
>
> Men and elves fought together in the first age, and in
> the second.
>
> But in the third age (the LoTR time period), it was
> the men who did the fighting. And it was NG who
> complained that they were the only ones who did most
> of the fighting for the men (maybe they said 'all the
> fighting', but I do feel some sympathy for NG, so I
> assume they were more polite and they said 'most').
>
> The elves retreated to their hidden pop centres and
> didn't come out in the third age.
>
> The sindar and silvan did so some fighting in the
> third age, but they didn't invite the men (I think the
> woodies might have helped out, but since they didn't
> help in great numbers it wasn't counted as a
> alliance).
>
> God only knows what the noldor did. Rumours of ladies
> underware and tied up sheep kept on being told about
> their behaviour, but who knows ?
>
> :slight_smile: (I have no sympathy for the noldor in case you
> missed it).
>
> thanks
> din
>
>

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
To Unsubscribe:www.egroups.com
http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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What is the difference between a 2950 game and the War of the Rings

scenario??

Kurgan

Hi Kurgan,

I felt that 2950 did not allow for armies of the size Tolkien wrote about,
so I wrote WotR as a 'beefed up' variant, with pops and armies more like
1650 level.

Regards,

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "kurgan" <kurgan@olp.net>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance: nation changes

Din wrote:

> --- Ricksha <ricksha@ramcell.net> wrote: > Ok, let me
> try this a different way, is the post
> > about it a hypothetical
> > discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the
> > Last Alliance?
>
> its a new scenario - like the War of the Ring scenario
> which is 2950 g29 (BTW richard also set up that).
>
> I expect that clint will soon ask if anyone wants to
> play in this game.
>
> thanks
> din
>
> >
> > Good info though.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> > > little confused here, what exactly is Last
> > > > Alliance?
> > > >
> > >
> > > that's when men and elves last fought together in
> > > great numbers against sauron.
> > >
> > > Men and elves fought together in the first age,
> > and in
> > > the second.
> > >
> > > But in the third age (the LoTR time period), it
> > was
> > > the men who did the fighting. And it was NG who
> > > complained that they were the only ones who did
> > most
> > > of the fighting for the men (maybe they said 'all
> > the
> > > fighting', but I do feel some sympathy for NG, so
> > I
> > > assume they were more polite and they said
> > 'most').
> > >
> > > The elves retreated to their hidden pop centres
> > and
> > > didn't come out in the third age.
> > >
> > > The sindar and silvan did so some fighting in the
> > > third age, but they didn't invite the men (I think
> > the
> > > woodies might have helped out, but since they
> > didn't
> > > help in great numbers it wasn't counted as a
> > > alliance).
> > >
> > > God only knows what the noldor did. Rumours of
> > ladies
> > > underware and tied up sheep kept on being told
> > about
> > > their behaviour, but who knows ?
> > >
> > > :slight_smile: (I have no sympathy for the noldor in case you
> > > missed it).
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > din
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-~>
> > Make good on the promise you made at graduation to
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> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------_->
> >
> > Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin
> > Games
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> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>

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This is a scenario that we have availble to play.

Clint

RD: Hey Clint,

If you launch another game of WotR, do I get royalties (g)?

Richard.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Middle Earth PBM Games" <me@MiddleEarthGames.com>
To: <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Last Alliance: nation changes

> Ok, let me try this a different way, is the post about it a hypothetical
> discussion, or is a scenerio in the works for the Last Alliance?
>
> Jeremy

Middle Earth PBM List - Middle Earth and Harlequin Games
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http://www.MiddleEarthGames.com

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--- In mepbmlist@y..., "Richard John Devereux" <devereux@l...> wrote:
> The Last Alliance, mepbm variant.
Just to clarify: this is a 13-12 match? Or is it a 13-10 match with
two neutrals?

RD: 12 FP v 13 DS

Also, with all of the dark in Mordor, it would seem doubtful that
large starting armies in the far north would see a lot of action...

cheers,

Marc

RD: Correct. Most armies have a considerable distance to travel before
combat is likely. On the one hand, this allows nations more time to build
up; on the other hand, it requires careful planning to keep those armied
paid and supplied until they can get into action. This is a significant
difference between LA and either 1650 or 2950. Some players may like it,
others won't. We will only find out how well it works by playing it!

Regards,

Richard.

···

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Nope - royalties are the biggest cost for the game shame really. :slight_smile:

C

···

> This is a scenario that we have availble to play.
>
> Clint

RD: Hey Clint,

If you launch another game of WotR, do I get royalties (g)?

Richard.

,
>
> If you launch another game of WotR, do I get
royalties (g)?

If you run another game of WoTR, can you PLEASE move
the l/r town one hex. Its got no defenses at all,
shows on the free map, not on any DS map, and since
its a town its doesn't generate its own recon map.

I was 'disappointed' with it when I played the long
rider.

thanks
din

···

>
> Richard.

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If you run another game of WoTR, can you PLEASE move
the l/r town one hex. Its got no defenses at all,
shows on the free map, not on any DS map, and since
its a town its doesn't generate its own recon map.

I was 'disappointed' with it when I played the long
rider.

thanks
din

RD: Now you know how the 1650 Northmen feel. There is no way they can
protect all their defenceless pops from attack and they can't see half of
them either. They have to make decisions which ones to defend and which
ones to abandon to luck.

Why should Long Rider - or any other nation - get special treatment? In
WotR 4121 is a town in mountains, so already it can't be attacked by hostile
armies unless they have food. You want a recon map? Stick some emis in
there, pump up the loyalty, make it a Major town!

This game wasn't meant to be easy. Disappointed? Consider it a challenge!
It IS only a game!

Richard.

RD: Now you know how the 1650 Northmen feel.

never played the northmen. But I do hear horror
stories of terrible fights and war zones from that
side of the game board. Actually if I wanted to play
the northmen, I would play the northmen (but that's
just me).

There
is no way they can
protect all their defenceless pops from attack and
they can't see half of
them either. They have to make decisions which ones
to defend and which
ones to abandon to luck.

Can they use armies to intercept the incoming enemies
?

And you are talking of pop centres in plural. I'm
taking pop centre in the singular (more of this below
...)

Why should Long Rider - or any other nation - get
special treatment?

I must look up my defination of special treatment. I
was thinking 'improvment' when I mentioned moving the
pop centre one hex.

I remember in WoTR G1 that the new armies had no food
in them. I've also suggested that in WoTR G2 that
these armies get food. What you call special
treatment, I would call 'tweaks', and the aim is to
improve player enjoyment.

Ditto with the pop centres starting off with food if
they produce none. But as I've no idea why this is so
in normal games, i'm not asking for it.

In
WotR 4121 is a town in mountains, so already it
can't be attacked by hostile
armies unless they have food.

So ??? 4121 is on the outer ridge line. In a lot
of the middle earth games that i've played, this outer
line is avoided by DS since its so easy for the free
to send down small cav armies and burn out any DS pop
centre.

I could ask why the l/r (whose capital is at 3329
-thats 12 hexes away) plonks down a town with no
defenses at 4121 when they have a neutral m/t 4 hexes
away. The nearest free m/t with armies is also 4
hexes, and the free capital is at 4013 (thats 8
hexes). I suppose orcs are meant to be stupid, but
thats real stupid.

The place is just asking to be taken over. However it
is a brillant place to be used as an attack on the
free (since its is a town, and its near the free pop
centres), thats why I would have liked it moved away
one hex. My preferred option would be to include it on
no one map.

The smart free would thus have more reason to capture
it (since they can't tell when the DS start cranking
out HC armies). This forces the DS to start cranking
out HI, and doing up the defenses. I wouldn't call
free/neutral/ds fighing over a critical town in
no-mans land special treatment, but a tweak to improve
game enjoyment.

:slight_smile:

You want a recon map?
Stick some emis in
there, pump up the loyalty, make it a Major town!

not worth it. Its too easy to fall to the free (as its
4 hexes from the nearest free and neutral armies). The
only hope I had to keep the place was to move in
armies from below, ie the free see an army pop up and
would think that i've just created 300 HI. But in fact
i've just jumped up 2000 HI. That's bound to upset
their counting skills :slight_smile: But I left the game before I
was able to do that.

This game wasn't meant to be easy.

While i'm looking at the dictionary, i'll skip 'easy',
and instead look for 'fun'.

Disappointed?

actually yes. But rather than complain, I would rather
put in positive improvements. I won't be playing the
l/r in WoTR game 2, but that doesn't mean I don't want
them to have a better game than whoever is currently
playing the l/r (and I've no idea who is playing the
l/r).

How many character changes did the l/r get ? None.
How many extra armies did the l/r get ? None.
How many pop centre changes did the l/r get ? One -
this town, and for the reasons above, i think they got
ripped off.

They did get the extra 15K that every DS got. But for
the l/r, its just another 2950 game with beefed up
allies.

Consider it a challenge!

I didn't think that WoTR was designed as another
challenge. I thought it was meant to improve the pop
centre base so that the game would more likely
represent the LoRT book (unless my memory is playing
tricks on me).

It IS only a game!

which is meant to mean ??? Since it is meant to be a
game, what's the problem of moving the only pop centre
that the l/r get, a single hex left or right ?

Left moves it onto a DS map (so they can see if the
free capture the place and then use it to get into
mordor). Right moves it off everyone's map (and thus
allows some mystery).

finally, I think WoRT is a great game. While not
perfect (how much was food selling at its peak ? And
were the free able to use the extra pop centres they
got ?), I think small improvements in WoRT Game 2 can
result in a better game.

thanks
m

Richard.

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in touch. Classmates.com has over 14 million
registered
high school alumni--chances are you'll find your
friends!

http://us.click.yahoo.com/l3joGB/DMUCAA/4ihDAA/oyQWlB/TM

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