Got an interesting thought - had someone mention that Lamthanc eats the army commander if it isn’t provided with combat soon enough, and it reminded me of the urban legend (which could very well be true, but I doubt it…) that Gandalf chases people around if they steal his ring.
And then it hit me - this kind of added “layer” of programming could actually be created on top of the existing game without impacting existing mechanics at all! For example, if we started messing with Archer First Shot or making character movement “realistic” (it, based on terrain), it would dramatically impact the game such that an entire re-write to a 2nd Edition would be absolutely necessary.
But a new NPC/Encounter layer could simply add-on to existing mechanics. Based on If-Then scenarios where NPC’s are given personalities that are more prevalent than the deep dark mysteries some oldie’s claim do exist. For example, if you steal Gandalf/Saruman’s/Galadriel’s rings, they WILL chase you! Sit in the same hex for 2 turns and you’re guaranteed a face to face character encounter. Odds of such increase over time (so 360 the damn thing!) etc. If you don’t give Lamthanc something to eat, he DOES eat your army commander! (would love to read the Nation Message report of THAT!).
Etc.
I’m operating under the assumption that this is actually, to some extent doable. And not just new encounters, but actually programmed personalities for existing NPC’s.
What would happen if you really pissed off the Giants, didn’t feed the Eagles, or didn’t water the Ents, or didn’t let the Mumakil snack on some peanuts,
Lot of us been playing for a long time, would be cool to see something like this added in,
Generally I’d like to see npc’s changed from time to time, so players wouldn’t know every answer/correct action to all encounters.
Also make dragons subject to instability, so they might suddenly turn on their current master. These beasts are afterall truely mighty creatures, with a mind of their own!
Also stuff like Dragon raids on FP’s, that depletes your food stock in a PC, or stops all production for some turns.
Wrath of Sauron, when a DS doesn’t do well enough, Sauron punishes him by killing random char?
Generally it saddens me that most games look the same, with the only change being incompetence from some new players, and/or players dropping out. But not sure npc’s could change that…
I’m thinking of things that will happen and won’t matter as much if they’re known, like all the easy Escape/Flee options, but will add to the game (ie, wizards chasing you across the map…).
I’d like to see a little more spice added also, but hopefully they fix a few of the games paradox events also.
Such as being able to sail through (literally) a forest hex in the western Cardolan inlet or the encounter riddle that tells of Gothmogs death (which can be unsettling when Gothmog is not only alive, but gets the riddle).
The Gothmog riddle refers to Gothmog the Balrog of the First Age, rather than the Lieutenant of Sauron.
Also I don’t think it’s completely illogical to be able to sail through a forest hex bordering a major river. I do think, though, that the intricacies of naval movement can be tricky to get your head around.
As usual, I oppose any FURTHER changes to the Stassun/Feilds game. It is called ‘the nose of the camel’. When the camel gets his nose in the tent, the rest of his body soon follows. There will be no end to further changes, mostly poorly thought out, inappropriate or someone’s favorite ‘hobby horse’.
Yes, for some reason naval movement is hard to pick up. It is NOT unreasonable for fleets to sail through forest hexes. Afterall, Viking fleets sailed Russia’s rivers. Union gunboats sailed western rivers and even streams during the Civil War.
Thank you for the info. I’m sure Gothmog can sleep better at night now.
In regards to the forest hex…my confusion began with the game instructions stating “Navies may only enter water hexes, hexes with a major river alongside, shore hexes, or hexes containing a port or harbour”.
I do not find ‘forest hex’ in the allowed hexes. Can you sail through the same hex when the harbor isn’t there? I do not think so or you could land at 2135 without one.
There’s a huge difference between a harbor (basically a small dent in the shoreline with a row of wooden docks) and a river (which your references are regarding) and I do not see a river on my map.
When I go to Florida and can’t sail my 40’ yacht from St. Petersburg to Vero Beach, I’ll be sure to complain to the government for there lack of vision.
Orilliion - Ed will defend the existing game. If there’s a way to rationalize it, he will. If not, he’s silent on the specifics and comes out gun ablaze the next conversation. People will forget the holes in the argument if you simply keep making it loud and louder.
Having said that - you can sail through a forested peninsula. You can also 498, 550, 770, 870, 947, 948 and 949 in the same pop across the entire map in the same turn. Noldo can send all their timber, gathered from the 4 corners of Middle Earth, to 4438, and the player 12 hexes away (across mountains and deserts and potentially an ocean/big lake) can not only join the army that was hired in a newly improved pop that just hours ago was flying the flag of another nation…this character can then 948 all that timber back to the Arthedain capital just moments before the pop is then contractually handed off to yet a third nation. This all occurs in 2 weeks… Note, at least you can’t sail “through” the forested peninsula in 1 day - it does take some time (stop 1 turn, continue the next). Of course, if you stopped there on MP 13/14 on the first turn, you’d still get 14 MP’s the next turn, so technically, yeah, I guess it isn’t even a speed bump. That’s okay, brag about your magical boat teleportation mechanism’s all you want (nothing to market, they only work in 1 place! Wonder of the World!)…
Like the pyramids, the ancients knew a lot that has been lost. One day we’ll talk about the low point of the sun and how the stars are generally aligned at that time, how the zodiac measures time in appx 2000 yr increments and how that involves old men on mountains leading directly to silly symbology on the back of cars to this day. If you didn’t get all of that, you’ll likely never move boats through forests that take troops 5 days to cross in one day…
Ahem, it was the ME naval movement and combat that gave me my EUREKA! moment. When I penetrated the game designers’ intent and saw how things were knit together. If interested, I talked about it on the List on 10-24-04 entry entitled ‘Naval Combat in Middle Earth’.
Is that the one where you speak of Ottomans and disparage “chaps”…? Might the game designers intent have been to create a cool game, and all this seperating the boyz from the men is something you’ve convinced yourself of to feel good? Of course, it’s a pretty simplistic philosophy that’s applicable to just about every facet of life, though, so it’s easy to confuse cause/effect/intent, etc.
I think it’s 0916 or 0917. The 2 forest hexes that create the inlet in western Cardolan. Apparently these are the only forest hexes without rivers that you can sail through.
My understanding is the reference to forested peninsulas with docks. 1015 in Cardolan and 2136 in Umbar. You can sail to those hexes from one side of the peninsula then exit that pop/hex the following turn from the other side, effectively, portaging across the forested hex that technically takes fed foot troop 5 days “to cross”.
Ed’s rationalization that boats can navigate waterways is misdirected - there are larger waterways on the map that these same boats cannot navigate (“minor rivers”) and similar peninsular hexes (0916, no starting pop) that do not share this behaviour. What Ed is really saying (intentionally trying to confuse or he’s actually confused himself…?) is this: Learn how the game works. And he means “All of it!” It’s a simple program - a hex with a harbour allows certain movements, period. The program doesn’t care which hex whence you came the previous turn before determining if you can “Move Navy” correctly the following turn. Stop complaining about X or Y because it’s an entire game with various layers of intricacy that are symbiotically dependant on one another. Thus, unless you know the code, the intent of the code, and can demonstrate how any 1 single piece impacts others, DO NOT CHANGE IT.
And for the “realist” complaints, well, it’s a Game. If it was realistic it would be the Real World and if it was that, we’d find another Game to play to escape from it… If you suddenly stop people from flying across forests in their magic boats, the I guess you’ll have to disallow the ability to teleport thousands of horses to a “hidden” City filled with Elves in the middle of Mordor amid a global conflict. And you might consider a couple other tweaks while you’re at it…
I’ve done it as the corsairs on the 2136 peninsula. You have to end your turn at 2136 then take off in the same direction next turn, ignoring the peninsula. It’s hardly game shaking and as fax stated, the game is not completely logical. Especially as he pointed out when you can send product untouched into a war zone. As the FK i build a M/T in the blind hexes above SG and below the Duns and sent horses, stacks of them to the pop. Every two weeks they’d show up from well inside mordor and ‘appear’ in my pop, none the worse for wear and ready to head into combat. Know the rules and the quirks they contain.
The quirks arn’t game breakers, just occasionally useful quirks
