Threatening a pc

Osgiliath does have the only Starbucks in Middle Earth.

···

From: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Crane dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 3:47:28 PM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

I did unexpectedly lose a few characters to dragons in a recent game. Also, they seem reluctant to go home. I had a few sitting at Osgiliath for a while (not in an army).

Sent from
Mail
for Windows 10

From: Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 12:46
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not to mention bizarre dragon encounter results.

Brad

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 2:14 AM, David Crane
dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I have noticed in recent times that guard orders are much less effective and agents are much less effective when in enemy pop centres.

Sent from
Mail
for Windows 10

From:
Jeremy Richman jeremyrichman@comcast.net [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 05:38
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com;
mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Oh. Well, in that case – would you MEG guys consider making the agent guard orders more effective?

At 07:09 PM 1/17/2018, Ernie DrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist] wrote:

They’re rebuilding the game on new platform, which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by “rules” and “ruling”…?? I issue the order and the program rolls dice and gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] < mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Well there’s sense and then’s the rules. The

rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect

that as they’re our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it’s what I

personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think

it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:

a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds

threatening towns with only 300 troops, I’ve

often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

And as Arthedain, I’ve threatened Carn Dum with

much less than the required number of troops.

I think it is in keeping with the spirit of

Middle Earth that this is so. One person can

be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

Jeremy

At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

And when there’s a random roll, there will

always be fog of war. But threatening is

really, really foggy. Some way to at least

estimate chance of success would be nice, and

if command rank vs loyalty is truly more

important than actual numbers, the ratio would

be good to know. Still won’t be able to be

certain, especially if loyalty isn’t known. But

fortifications impact, for example, should be

known rather than merely implied - there’s no

way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops

should have been able to threaten a

city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so

low they were just looking for an excuse to

rebel, which would have been unlikely given it

was the dwarven capital and they hadn’t been hurt that bad…

That’s not fog of war, that is a billowing

cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

E3

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----

From: ME Games Ltd
me@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mepbmlist] < mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

To: mepbmlist < mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone

knows everything, the game will be

less interesting. I think, a bit like there is always a chance that a good

character will fail, there’s always a chance that a poorer character will

succeed.

David

On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

< mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]"

<< mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it’s happened lots

the rules shouly really say minimum

recommended forced not minimum force.

We’re updating the guide to reflect this.

Clint

At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Despite what the rulebook said, the original

game always allowed a chance to threaten with

less than the official number of troops. It was

more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.

In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened

Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,

with a dog lord army that had less than 1500

troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks

to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

Now, I’d be in favor of a greater adherence to

what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual

mechanics were more transparent to the players.

But many, many games have seen high command

r

Virus-free.

<
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <
http://www.middleearthgames.com
>
www.middleearthgames.com

Email: < mailto:me@middleearthgames.com >me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK:
340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Not the case. Best get in here quick before chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We're converting the code to work on the PC. what this means is that we've founds lots of code that is either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or that wasn't clear and so I've checked (eg the Threatening order) and ask for clarity. Technically we've converted the code, using it and where it appears to either not been converted 100% correctly fixing it (eg in some encounters the text is spitting out twice).

So if you do spot anything tell us and we'll sort it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code... :slight_smile:

Hope that's useful.

Clint

They're rebuilding the game on new platform, which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I issue the order and the program rolls dice and gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

Well there's sense and then's the rules. The
rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
that as they're our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I
personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

>
>a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
>threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've
>often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.
>
>And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with
>much less than the required number of troops.
>
>I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
>Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
>be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.
>
>Jeremy
>
>>
>>And when there's a random roll, there will
>>always be fog of war. But threatening is
>>really, really foggy. Some way to at least
>>estimate chance of success would be nice, and
>>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
>>important than actual numbers, the ratio would
>>be good to know. Still won't be able to be
>>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But
>>fortifications impact, for example, should be
>>known rather than merely implied - there's no
>>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
>>should have been able to threaten a
>>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
>>low they were just looking for an excuse to
>>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
>>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad...
>>
>>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing
>>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.
>>
>>E3
>>
>>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>>
>>From: ME Games Ltd <mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
>>[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>>To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
>>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
>>
>>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:
>>
>>C
>>
>> >
>> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
>> knows everything, the game will be
>> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there is always a chance that a good
>> >character will fail, there's always a chance that a poorer character will
>> >succeed.
>> >David
>> >
>> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd
>> > <mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]"
>> > > <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> >> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots
>> > > the rules shouly really say minimum
>> recommended forced not minimum force.
>> > >
>> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.
>> > >
>> > > Clint
>> > >
>> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original
>> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with
>> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was
>> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
>> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
>> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
>> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
>> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
>> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.
>> > > >
>> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to
>> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
>> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.
>> > > >But many, many games have seen high command
>> > > >r
>
>Virus-free.
><<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium =email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

>

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <<http://www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com><mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: <https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Cardiff+CF14+3BP+UK&entry=gmail&source=g>340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
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Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

-----Original Message-----
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd ><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com >[mepbmlist] ><<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
>At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I asked about getting a franchise in Cameth Brin - they sent me a case of Keurig pods and a thank you letter…

Brad

···

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:54 AM, david house lompoc00@hotmail.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Osgiliath does have the only Starbucks in Middle Earth.


From: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com on behalf of David Crane dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 3:47:28 PM
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

I did unexpectedly lose a few characters to dragons in a recent game. Also, they seem reluctant to go home. I had a few sitting at Osgiliath for a while (not in an army).

Sent from
Mail
for Windows 10

From: Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 12:46
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not to mention bizarre dragon encounter results.

Brad

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 2:14 AM, David Crane
dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I have noticed in recent times that guard orders are much less effective and agents are much less effective when in enemy pop centres.

Sent from
Mail
for Windows 10

From:
Jeremy Richman jeremyrichman@comcast.net [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 05:38
To: mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com;
mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Oh. Well, in that case – would you MEG guys consider making the agent guard orders more effective?

At 07:09 PM 1/17/2018, Ernie DrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist] wrote:

They’re rebuilding the game on new platform, which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by “rules” and “ruling”…?? I issue the order and the program rolls dice and gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] < mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Well there’s sense and then’s the rules. The

rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect

that as they’re our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it’s what I

personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think

it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:

a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds

threatening towns with only 300 troops, I’ve

often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

And as Arthedain, I’ve threatened Carn Dum with

much less than the required number of troops.

I think it is in keeping with the spirit of

Middle Earth that this is so. One person can

be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

Jeremy

At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

And when there’s a random roll, there will

always be fog of war. But threatening is

really, really foggy. Some way to at least

estimate chance of success would be nice, and

if command rank vs loyalty is truly more

important than actual numbers, the ratio would

be good to know. Still won’t be able to be

certain, especially if loyalty isn’t known. But

fortifications impact, for example, should be

known rather than merely implied - there’s no

way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops

should have been able to threaten a

city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so

low they were just looking for an excuse to

rebel, which would have been unlikely given it

was the dwarven capital and they hadn’t been hurt that bad…

That’s not fog of war, that is a billowing

cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

E3

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----

From: ME Games Ltd
me@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mepbmlist] < mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

To: mepbmlist < mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone

knows everything, the game will be

less interesting. I think, a bit like there is always a chance that a good

character will fail, there’s always a chance that a poorer character will

succeed.

David

On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

< mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]"

<< mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it’s happened lots

the rules shouly really say minimum

recommended forced not minimum force.

We’re updating the guide to reflect this.

Clint

At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Despite what the rulebook said, the original

game always allowed a chance to threaten with

less than the official number of troops. It was

more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.

In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened

Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,

with a dog lord army that had less than 1500

troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks

to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

Now, I’d be in favor of a greater adherence to

what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual

mechanics were more transparent to the players.

But many, many games have seen high command

r

Virus-free.

<
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <
http://www.middleearthgames.com
>
www.middleearthgames.com

Email: < mailto:me@middleearthgames.com >me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK:
340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Oh. Well, in that case -- would you MEG guys consider making the agent guard orders more effective?

And so it begins. :slight_smile: Simple answer no, we're not changing the code at present. Jeremy/Ernie tag-team lol

Our focus at present is get the code fully converted when that's done we have some other plans. So we have neither plans to make agents stronger nor weaker at this present time.

1) Make JO more simple to use for new players
2) Bring out a new 1v1 module
3) Continue to fix any conversion issues that may occur and resolve those.

Then we look at updating the encounter system in the new module and if you guys like it we might push that out to KS (and maybe FAS etc, but I'll discuss that with you all before that.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

I have noticed in recent times that guard orders are much less effective and agents are much less effective when in enemy pop centres.

We've changed nothing

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

We've not changed the responses so that. Some of the encounter code regarding who could react to it has now been fixed.

Not to mention bizarre dragon encounter results.

So if you have some concrete stuff for us to look at we'd be happy to. That's the best system here guys, spot something and we'll fix it. (I do have Brad's extensive list of minor tweaks to JO that is on the list of things to do btw)

Brad

Â

I have noticed in recent times that guard orders are much less effective and agents are much less effective when in enemy pop centres.

Â

Sent from <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>Mail for Windows 10

Â

From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Jeremy Richman jeremyrichman@comcast.net [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 05:38
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com; <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Â

Â

Oh. Well, in that case -- would you MEG guys consider making the agent guard orders more effective?

Â

They're rebuilding the game on new platform, which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: Brad Brunet <mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I issue the order and the program rolls dice and gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

Â

Well there's sense and then's the rules. The

rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect

that as they're our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I

personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think

it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

>a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds

>threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've

>often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

>And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with

>much less than the required number of troops.

>I think it is in keeping with the spirit of

>Middle Earth that this is so. One person can

>be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

>Jeremy

>>Â

>>Â

>>And when there's a random roll, there will

>>always be fog of war. But threatening is

>>really, really foggy. Some way to at least

>>estimate chance of success would be nice, and

>>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more

>>important than actual numbers, the ratio would

>>be good to know. Still won't be able to be

>>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But

>>fortifications impact, for example, should be

>>known rather than merely implied - there's no

>>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops

>>should have been able to threaten a

>>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so

>>low they were just looking for an excuse to

>>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it

>>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad...

>>Â

>>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing

>>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

>>Â

>>E3

>>Â

>>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

>>Â

>>Â

>>From: ME Games Ltd <mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

>>[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

>>To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups…com> mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

>>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM

>>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

>>Â

>>Â

>>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:

>>Â

>>C

>>Â

>> >

>> >

>> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone

>> knows everything, the game will be

>> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there is always a chance that a good

>> >character will fail, there's always a chance that a poorer character will

>> >succeed.

>> >David

>> >

>> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

>> > < mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com ><mailto:me@Middl eEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]"

>> > > << mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots

>> > > the rules shouly really say minimum

>> recommended forced not minimum force..

>> > >

>> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.

>> > >

>> > > Clint

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original

>> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with

>> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was

>> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.

>> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened

>> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,

>> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500

>> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks

>> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

>> > > >

>> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to

>> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual

>> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.

>> > > >But many, many games have seen high command

>> > > >r

>Virus-free.

>< http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient ><http://www.avg.com/>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: < http://www.middleearthgames.com > www.middleearthgames.com

Email: < mailto:me@middleearthgames.com ><mailto:me@middle earthgames..com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: <https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Cardiff+CF14+3BP+UK&entry=gmail&source=g>340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

(Dial <tel:+44%2029%202091%203359>011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Â

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 2:14 AM, David Crane ><mailto:dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk>dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk >[mepbmlist] ><<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
At 07:09 PM 1/17/2018, Ernie ><mailto:DrakaraGM@aol.com>DrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist] wrote:
-----Original Message-----
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd ><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com >[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> >mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
>At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com > wrote:
>> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I did unexpectedly lose a few characters to dragons in a recent game. Also, they seem reluctant to go home. I had a few sitting at Osgiliath for a while (not in an army).

Get in touch if you think there's something wacky going on off list and we can investigate.

Clint

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

That's all games now. I recommend using the GUIDE as the rules, and the rules as something that was correct 25 years ago.

Clint

For future games or all ongoing game? That's quite a tweak!

Jeremy

The rules in the old book state you need X
numbers of troops and in sectoin 22 state a
minimum needed. But it's one of those things
where the actual experience of players break that rules.

So we've tweaked the rules to reflect what is
actually the case, the Guide being the appropriate ruling booklet.

Clint

>What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I
>issue the order and the program rolls dice and
>gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?
>
>Brad
>

>
>Well there's sense and then's the rules. The
>rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
>that as they're our source of ruling now.
>
>Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I
>personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
>it adds more skill to the game.
>
>Clint
>
> >
> >a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
> >threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've
> >often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.
> >
> >And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with
> >much less than the required number of troops.
> >
> >I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
> >Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
> >be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.
> >
> >Jeremy
> >
> >>
> >>And when there's a random roll, there will
> >>always be fog of war. But threatening is
> >>really, really foggy. Some way to at least
> >>estimate chance of success would be nice, and
> >>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
> >>important than actual numbers, the ratio would
> >>be good to know. Still won't be able to be
> >>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But
> >>fortifications impact, for example, should be
> >>known rather than merely implied - there's no
> >>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
> >>should have been able to threaten a
> >>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
> >>low they were just looking for an excuse to
> >>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
> >>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad....
> >>
> >>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing
> >>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.
> >>
> >>E3
> >>
> >>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> >>
> >>From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com
> >>[mepbmlist] << mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >>To: mepbmlist << mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
> >>
> >>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:
> >>
> >>C
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
> >> knows everything, the game will be
> >> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there
> is always a chance that a good
> >> >character will fail, there's always a chance that a poorer character will
> >> >succeed.
> >> >David
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots
> >> > > the rules shouly really say minimum
> >> recommended forced not minimum force.
> >> > >
> >> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Clint
> >> > >
> >> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original
> >> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with
> >> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was
> >> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
> >> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
> >> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
> >> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
> >> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
> >> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to
> >> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
> >> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.
> >> > > >But many, many games have seen high command
> >> > > >r
> >
> >Virus-free.
> ><<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium
> =email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email www.avg.com
>
> >
>
>Middle Earth Games Ltd
>
>Website:
><< http://www.middleearthgames.com > http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com
>
>Email:
>< mailto:me@middleearthgames.com >< mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com
>
>Post: UK:
><https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Cardiff+CF14+3BP+UK 340
>North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
>
>Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
>UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
>(Dial <tel:+44%2029%202091%203359>011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
>
>Virus-free.
><http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium =email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email www.avg.com
>

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: < http://www.middleearthgames.com > www.middleearthgames.com

Email: < mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

At 11:36 AM 1/17/2018, you wrote:

At 16:23 17/01/2018, you wrote:
>On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd >> >me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] >> ><< mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
> >At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
> >> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd >> > >> > < mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]" >> > >> > > << mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> >> > < mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I'll take 10%

c

I asked about getting a franchise in Cameth Brin - they sent me a case of Keurig pods and a thank you letter...

Brad

Â

Osgiliath does have the only Starbucks in Middle Earth.Â

----------
From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of David Crane <mailto:dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk>dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk [mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 3:47:28 PM
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
Â

I did unexpectedly lose a few characters to dragons in a recent game. Also, they seem reluctant to go home. I had a few sitting at Osgiliath for a while (not in an army).

Â

Sent from <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02|01||fd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|636518872632950573&sdata=XjmOMxF%2B9S7DrfgHdnUMbWAkju2g0Ri15uyv4OLists%3D&reserved=0>Mail for Windows 10

Â

From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 12:46
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Â

Â

Not to mention bizarre dragon encounter results.

Brad

Â

Â

I have noticed in recent times that guard orders are much less effective and agents are much less effective when in enemy pop centres.

Â

Sent from <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02|01||fd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|636518872632950573&sdata=XjmOMxF%2B9S7DrfgHdnUMbWAkju2g0Ri15uyv4OLists%3D&reserved=0>Mail for Windows 10

Â

From: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>Jeremy Richman jeremyrichman@comcast.net [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 05:38
To: <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com; <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Â

Â

Oh. Well, in that case -- would you MEG guys consider making the agent guard orders more effective?

Â

They're rebuilding the game on new platform, which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: Brad Brunet <mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I issue the order and the program rolls dice and gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

Â

Well there's sense and then's the rules. The

rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect

that as they're our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I

personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think

it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

>a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds

>threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've

>often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

>And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with

>much less than the required number of troops.

>I think it is in keeping with the spirit of

>Middle Earth that this is so. One person can

>be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

>Jeremy

>>Â

>>Â

>>And when there's a random roll, there will

>>always be fog of war. But threatening is

>>really, really foggy. Some way to at least

>>estimate chance of success would be nice, and

>>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more

>>important than actual numbers, the ratio would

>>be good to know. Still won't be able to be

>>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But

>>fortifications impact, for example, should be

>>known rather than merely implied - there's no

>>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops

>>should have been able to threaten a

>>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so

>>low they were just looking for an excuse to

>>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it

>>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad...

>>Â

>>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing

>>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

>>Â

>>E3

>>Â

>>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

>>Â

>>Â

>>From: ME Games Ltd <mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

>>[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

>>To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

>>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM

>>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

>>Â

>>Â

>>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:

>>Â

>>C

>>Â

>> >

>> >

>> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone

>> knows everything, the game will be

>> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there is always a chance that a good

>> >character will fail, there's always a chance that a poorer character will

>> >succeed.

>> >David

>> >

>> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

>> > < mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com ><mailto:me@Middl eEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]"

>> > > << mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots

>> > > the rules shouly really say minimum

>> recommended forced not minimum force.

>> > >

>> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.

>> > >

>> > > Clint

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original

>> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with

>> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was

>> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.

>> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened

>> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,

>> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500

>> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks

>> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

>> > > >

>> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to

>> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual

>> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.

>> > > >But many, many games have seen high command

>> > > >r

>Virus-free.

>< http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient ><https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avg.com%2F&data=02|01||fd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|636518872632950573&sdata=WN0uBWIs1IhK%2BsAlLLGhFVPV1UYmNxcez6ooHv88CcA%3D&reserved=0>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: < http://www.middleearthgames.com > www.middleearthgames.com

Email: < mailto:me@middleearthgames.com ><mailto:me@middle earthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2F%3Fq%3D340%2BNorth%2BRoad%2C%2BCardiff%2BCF14%2B3BP%2BUK%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02|01||fd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|636518872632950573&sdata=v8LEdIEVnVPcIp1YXTmiqSlX%2FCr8ceha9%2By6T0j8jyk%3D&reserved=0>340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

(Dial <tel:+44%2029%202091%203359>011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

Â

Â

Â

Â

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

At 16:45 18/01/2018, you wrote:

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:54 AM, david house ><mailto:lompoc00@hotmail.com>lompoc00@hotmail.com > [mepbmlist] ><<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 2:14 AM, David Crane ><mailto:dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk>dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk >[mepbmlist] ><<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
At 07:09 PM 1/17/2018, Ernie ><mailto:DrakaraGM@aol.com>DrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist] wrote:
-----Original Message-----
On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd ><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com >[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> >mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
>At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com > wrote:
>> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Wow that’s a long thread :slight_smile: … Great!

One techy question from a curious IT guy…

From what to what are you migrating the code? program language wise

I’m at 729 Petrolia Road, Cameth Brin, Ontario, Canada. Come on by, I’ll make you a cup.

Brad

···

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:03 PM, ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

I’ll take 10%

c

At 16:45 18/01/2018, you wrote:

I asked about getting a franchise in Cameth Brin

  • they sent me a case of Keurig pods and a thank you letter…

Brad

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:54 AM, david house
mailto:lompoc00@hotmail.comlompoc00@hotmail.com
[mepbmlist]
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Â

Osgiliath does have the only Starbucks in Middle Earth.Â


From:
mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
on behalf of David Crane
mailto:dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.ukdazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk
[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 3:47:28 PM
To: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
Â
Â

I did unexpectedly lose a few characters to
dragons in a recent game. Also, they seem
reluctant to go home. I had a few sitting at
Osgiliath for a while (not in an army).

Â

Sent from
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636518872632950573&sdata=XjmOMxF%2B9S7DrfgHdnUMbWAkju2g0Ri15uyv4OLists%3D&reserved=0>Mail
for Windows 10

Â

From: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.comBrad
Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 12:46
To: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Â

Â

Not to mention bizarre dragon encounter results.

Brad

Â

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 2:14 AM, David Crane
mailto:dazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.ukdazedandconfused@blueyonder.co.uk
[mepbmlist]
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Â

I have noticed in recent times that guard orders
are much less effective and agents are much less
effective when in enemy pop centres.

Â

Sent from
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636518872632950573&sdata=XjmOMxF%2B9S7DrfgHdnUMbWAkju2g0Ri15uyv4OLists%3D&reserved=0>Mail
for Windows 10

Â

From: mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.comJeremy
Richman jeremyrichman@comcast.net [mepbmlist]
Sent: 18 January 2018 05:38
To:
mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com;
mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Â

Â

Oh. Well, in that case – would you MEG guys
consider making the agent guard orders more effective?

At 07:09 PM 1/17/2018, Ernie
mailto:DrakaraGM@aol.comDrakaraGM@aol.com [mepbmlist] wrote:

Â

They’re rebuilding the game on new platform,
which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Brunet
mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.combrad.brunet@gmail.com

[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

To: mepbmlist <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM

Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by “rules” and “ruling”…?? I

issue the order and the program rolls dice and

gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd

mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com

mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Â

Well there’s sense and then’s the rules. The

rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect

that as they’re our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it’s what I

personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think

it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:

Â

Â

a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds

threatening towns with only 300 troops, I’ve

often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

Â

And as Arthedain, I’ve threatened Carn Dum with

much less than the required number of troops.

Â

I think it is in keeping with the spirit of

Middle Earth that this is so. One person can

be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

Â

Jeremy

Â

Â

At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

Â

Â

And when there’s a random roll, there will

always be fog of war. But threatening is

really, really foggy. Some way to at least

estimate chance of success would be nice, and

if command rank vs loyalty is truly more

important than actual numbers, the ratio would

be good to know. Still won’t be able to be

certain, especially if loyalty isn’t known. But

fortifications impact, for example, should be

known rather than merely implied - there’s no

way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops

should have been able to threaten a

city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so

low they were just looking for an excuse to

rebel, which would have been unlikely given it

was the dwarven capital and they hadn’t been hurt that bad…

Â

That’s not fog of war, that is a billowing

cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

Â

E3

Â

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

Â

Â

-----Original Message-----

From: ME Games Ltd mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

To: mepbmlist

<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Â

Â

Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so… :slight_smile:

Â

C

Â

At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone

knows everything, the game will be

less interesting. I think, a bit like there

is always a chance that a good

character will fail, there’s always a chance that a poorer character will

succeed.

David

On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

<

mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com ><mailto:me@Middl

eEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist]"

<< mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it’s happened lots

the rules shouly really say minimum

recommended forced not minimum force.

We’re updating the guide to reflect this.

Clint

At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Despite what the rulebook said, the original

game always allowed a chance to threaten with

less than the official number of troops. It was

more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.

In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened

Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,

with a dog lord army that had less than 1500

troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks

to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

Now, I’d be in favor of a greater adherence to

what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual

mechanics were more transparent to the players.

But many, many games have seen high command

r

Â

Â

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Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: < http://www.middleearthgames.com > www.middleearthgames…com

Email: <

mailto:me@middleearthgames.com ><mailto:me@middle

earthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK:

<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2F%3Fq%3D340%2BNorth%2BRoad%2C%2BCardiff%2BCF14%2B3BP%2BUK%26entry%3Dgmail%26source%3Dg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfd61934501894533234808d55e8acfaa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636518872632950573&sdata=v8LEdIEVnVPcIp1YXTmiqSlX%2FCr8ceha9%2By6T0j8jyk%3D&reserved=0>340

North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

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Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)

UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)

(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

One step at a time…

B

···

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:28 PM, j.chalmeta@yahoo.es [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Wow that’s a long thread :slight_smile: … Great!

One techy question from a curious IT guy…

From what to what are you migrating the code? program language wise

I thought the genesis was the abacus?

I still remember the old days of faxing my orders in at the last minute…

Michael

···

On Jan 18, 2018, at 11:44 AM, Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

From: Punch Cards

To: Cobalt.

One step at a time…

B

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:28 PM, j.chalmeta@yahoo.es [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Wow that’s a long thread :slight_smile: … Great!

One techy question from a curious IT guy…

From what to what are you migrating the code? program language wise

Right - rebuilding! Rennovating. Upgrading. Converting and fixing. Same same. :wink: New platform, the PC. Not intentionally reinventing stuff, but differences definitely can happen in the process.

Most of the stuff I have noticed in 4th Age is cosmetic, and possibly related to coding the kingdoms as NK and SK and then the remaining nations are 1-23 in some cases, but properly 1-25 for all the nations in other cases. For example the race/region of the nation vs the names of the troop types imply that the flavor text at least at times is out of sync with the nation, but could also mean that some game elements might be out of sync.

Elves, for example, have different (slightly) terrain modifiers than men. In game 43, my nation 10 is an elven nation, located in the South Mirkwood region. However, in my turn, my troop names clearly reflect a mannish nature:

Woodman horsemen with maces

Woodman horsemen with hand axes

Woodman footmen with battle axes

Mixed Northman footmen with hand axes

Woodman archers with long bows

Mixed Northman mercenaries with maces

Then, in battles, the troops reflect yet a different mannish flavor. My hc and lc, listed as Woodman in the armies section, with maces and hand axes, are different for sure:

Mixed Mannish horsemen with shortswords

Lesser Mannish horsemen with scimitars

And we faced troops from a region in the northwest, either Rhudaur or Dunland, which were listed in battle as Haradan footmen with broadswords. Last I heard, Harad was a lot further south!

Similarly in game 41 as nation 24, I have Plainsman footmen with broadswords listed as the hi troops, who turn into Eriadoran footmen with spears in battle. :slight_smile:

So, as long as the troops actually fight as the correct type, which they do, that is mostly cosmetic. But in 4th Age, each race does have its own terrain/climate chart, and if the program neither associates troop names with actual race if the nation, nor uses the same names in battle as they do listed in the army section, who knows whether they are actually using the appropriate terrain/climate adjustments? Not a major deal, but certainly disconcerting to take an elvish nation with two different styles of mannish troops shown. :slight_smile:

Other things may also be slightly different, again looking at 4th Age. Sales. From the beginning of 4th Age, the market limit on sales, for almost all turns, until/unless the market started to spiral up, was right around 20k. So reliable a limit it was that I never planned on selling more than 19.7k worth of goods. That was a significant change from the 1650 30k typical limit, ie it was a notable change when 4th Age came out, and folks had to readjust their thinking. But since the changeover, the limit each turn is definitely higher. In game 43, the higher limit allowed my elven nation to boost its treasury nicely, and this last turn I sold 11,428 food for 22,856 gold plus 2300 timber for 6900 gold, almost 30k, without hitting the limit. The previous turn I sold leather for 10.8k and mounts for 22.9k. The turn before that, turn 7, I hit the limit, selling timber for 37.1k.

Overall, in game 43, the market has never bottomed out like it used to in most 4th Age games, the higher prices and higher market limit allowing treasuries to remain high and that in return helped keep the market from crashing. As of turn 7 I had managed to have 69.5k in treasury despite a 20k deficit. Definitely not typical of 4th Age games played consistently over the past decades.

In some cases, skill increases seem to be slightly more generous than they were before, as well, but I don’t have as much data on that handy - on holiday, away from my stuff except for the past couple turns.

So I stand by my statement, “the game may not work like it used to in some cases.” I’m not saying that is a bad thing, it is just a wee bit different. So old calculations/rules of thumb may not always be reliable for things like threats, recruiting characters, doubling, etc.

By the way, while you’re digging through the code, one thing that has always irked me. Sieges. From experiences, the siege order is no more likely to work than the threaten order. In which case, nobody should ever bother to siege! Sieging should be easier than threatening, making it a viable option for armies not large enough to threaten.

Ernie III

···

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com; mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not the case. Best get in here quick before
chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We’re
converting the code to work on the PC. what this
means is that we’ve founds lots of code that is
either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or
that wasn’t clear and so I’ve checked (eg the
Threatening order) and ask for
clarity. Technically we’ve converted the code,
using it and where it appears to either not been
converted 100% correctly fixing it (eg in some
encounters the text is spitting out twice).

So if you do spot anything tell us and we’ll sort
it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code… :slight_smile:

Hope that’s useful.

Clint

They’re rebuilding the game on new platform,
which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Brunet brad.brunet@gmail.com
[mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by “rules” and “ruling”…?? I
issue the order and the program rolls dice and
gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd >mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com >[mepbmlist] ><mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Well there’s sense and then’s the rules. The
rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
that as they’re our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it’s what I
personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:

a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
threatening towns with only 300 troops, I’ve
often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

And as Arthedain, I’ve threatened Carn Dum with
much less than the required number of troops.

I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

Jeremy

At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

And when there’s a random roll, there will
always be fog of war. But threatening is
really, really foggy. Some way to at least
estimate chance of success would be nice, and
if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
important than actual numbers, the ratio would
be good to know. Still won’t be able to be
certain, especially if loyalty isn’t known. But
fortifications impact, for example, should be
known rather than merely implied - there’s no
way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
should have been able to threaten a
city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
low they were just looking for an excuse to
rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
was the dwarven capital and they hadn’t been hurt that bad…

That’s not fog of war, that is a billowing
cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

E3

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com
[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
knows everything, the game will be
less interesting. I think, a bit like there
is always a chance that a good

character will fail, there’s always a chance that a poorer character will
succeed.
David

On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.commailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com
[mepbmlist]"

<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it’s happened lots
the rules shouly really say minimum
recommended forced not minimum force.

We’re updating the guide to reflect this.

Clint

At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Despite what the rulebook said, the original
game always allowed a chance to threaten with
less than the official number of troops. It was
more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

Now, I’d be in favor of a greater adherence to
what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
mechanics were more transparent to the players.
But many, many games have seen high command
r

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Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
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Right - rebuilding! Rennovating. Upgrading. Converting and fixing. Same same. :wink: New platform, the PC. Not intentionally reinventing stuff, but differences definitely can happen in the process.

Most of the stuff I have noticed in 4th Age is cosmetic, and possibly related to coding the kingdoms as NK and SK and then the remaining nations are 1-23 in some cases, but properly 1-25 for all the nations in other cases. For example the race/region of the nation vs the names of the troop types imply that the flavor text at least at times is out of sync with the nation, but could also mean that some game elements might be out of sync.

Elves, for example, have different (slightly) terrain modifiers than men. In game 43, my nation 10 is an elven nation, located in the South Mirkwood region. However, in my turn, my troop names clearly reflect a mannish nature:
Woodman horsemen with maces
Woodman horsemen with hand axes
Woodman footmen with battle axes
Mixed Northman footmen with hand axes
Woodman archers with long bows
Mixed Northman mercenaries with maces

Yeah that's a JOvs XML database clash. It's a textual thing only.

Then, in battles, the troops reflect yet a different mannish flavor. My hc and lc, listed as Woodman in the armies section, with maces and hand axes, are different for sure:
Mixed Mannish horsemen with shortswords
Lesser Mannish horsemen with scimitars

And we faced troops from a region in the northwest, either Rhudaur or Dunland, which were listed in battle as Haradan footmen with broadswords. Last I heard, Harad was a lot further south!

Similarly in game 41 as nation 24, I have Plainsman footmen with broadswords listed as the hi troops, who turn into Eriadoran footmen with spears in battle. :slight_smile:

So, as long as the troops actually fight as the correct type, which they do, that is mostly cosmeti c. But in 4th Age, each race does have its own terrain/climate chart, and if the program neither associates troop names with actual race if the nation, nor uses the same names in battle as they do listed in the army section, who knows whether they are actually using the appropriate terrain/climate adjustments? Not a major deal, but certainly disconcerting to take an elvish nation with two different styles of mannish troops shown. :slight_smile:

Other things may also be slightly different, again looking at 4th Age. Sales. From the beginning of 4th Age, the market limit on sales, for almost all turns, until/unless the market started to spiral up, was right around 20k. So reliable a limit it was that I never planned on selling more than 19.7k worth of goods. That was a significant change from the 1650 30k typical limit, ie it was a notable change when 4th Age came out, and folks had to readjust their thinking. But since the changeover, the limit each turn is definitely highe r. In game 43, the higher limit allowed my elven nation to boost its treasury nicely, and this last turn I sold 11,428 food for 22,856 gold plus 2300 timber for 6900 gold, almost 30k, without hitting the limit. The previous turn I sold leather for 10.8k and mounts for 22.9k. The turn before that, turn 7, I hit the limit, selling timber for 37.1k.

Overall, in game 43, the market has never bottomed out like it used to in most 4th Age games, the higher prices and higher market limit allowing treasuries to remain high and that in return helped keep the market from crashing. As of turn 7 I had managed to have 69.5k in treasury despite a 20k deficit. Definitely not typical of 4th Age games played consistently over the past decades.

In some cases, skill increases seem to be slightly more generous than they were before, as well, but I don't have as much data on that handy - on holiday, away from my stuff except for the past couple turn s.

So I stand by my statement, "the game may not work like it used to in some cases." I'm not saying that is a bad thing, it is just a wee bit different. So old calculations/rules of thumb may not always be reliable for things like threats, recruiting characters, doubling, etc.

Yep, it's a fair point, if you do see things tell us.

By the way, while you're digging through the code, one thing that has always irked me. Sieges. From experiences, the siege order is no more likely to work than the threaten order. In which case, nobody should ever bother to siege! Sieging should be easier than threatening, making it a viable option for armies not large enough to threaten.

Yep, I can add it to the list.. :slight_smile:

Ernie III

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>; mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not the case. Best get in here quick before
chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We're
converting the code to work on the PC. what this
means is that we've founds lots of code that is
either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or
that wasn't clear and so I've checked (eg the
Threatening order) and ask for
clarity. Technically we've converted the code,
using it and where it appears to either not been
converted 100% correctly fixing it (eg in some
encounters the text is spitting out twice).

So if you do spot anything tell us and we'll sort
it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code... :slight_smile:

Hope that's useful.

Clint

>They're rebuilding the game on new platform,
>which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.
>
>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>-----Orig inal Message-----
>From: Brad Brunet <mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com
>[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
>
>What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I
>issue the order and the program rolls dice and
>gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?
>
>Brad
>
>On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
><<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarth Games.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
>[mepbmlist]
><<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@y ahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
>
>Well there's sense and then's the rules. The
>rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
>that as they're our source of ruling now.
>
>Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I
>personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
>it adds more skill to the game.
>
>Clint
>
> >
> >a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
> >threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've
> >often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.
> >
> >And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with
> >much less than the required number of troops.
> >
> >I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
> >Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
> >be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.
> >
> >Jeremy
> >< br>> >
> >>
> >>And when there's a random roll, there will
> >>always be fog of war. But threatening is
> >>really, really foggy. Some way to at least
> >>estimate chance of success would be nice, and
> >>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
> >>important than actual numbers, the ratio would
> >>be good to know. Still won't be able to be
> >>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But
> >>fortifications impact, for example, should be
> >>known rather than merely implied - there's no
> >>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
> >>should have been able to threaten a
> >>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
> >>low they were just looking for an excuse to
> >>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
&g
t; >>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad...
> >>
> >>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing
> >>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.
> >>
> >>E3
> >>
> >>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> >>
> >>From: ME Games Ltd <<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
> >>[mepbmlist] <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >>To: mepbmlist <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
> >>
> >>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:
> >>
> >>C
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
> >> knows everything, the game will be
> >> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there
> is always a chance that a good
> >> >character will fail, there's always a chance that a poorer character will
> >> >succeed.
> >> >David
> >> >
> >> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd
> >> >
> <<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

> [mep bmlist]"
> >> > > <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots
> >> > > the rules shouly really say minimum
> >> recommended forced not minimum force.
> >> > >
> >> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Clint
> >> > >
> >> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original
> >> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with
> &g
t;> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was
> >> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
> >> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
> >> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
> >> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
> >> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
> >> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to
> >> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
> >> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.
> >> > > >But many, many games have seen high command
> >> > > >r
> >
> >Virus-free.
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>
> >
>
>Middle Earth Games Ltd
>
>Website:
><<<http://www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.m iddleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com
>
>Email:
><<mailto:me@middleearthgames.com><mailto:me@mid dleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailt o :me@middleearthgames.com><mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com
>
>Post: UK:
><<https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Ca rdiff+CF14+3BP+UK&entry=gmail&source=g>340>https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Cardiff+CF14+3BP+UK&entry=gmail&source=g>340

>North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
>
>Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
>UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
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···

At 18:21 18/01/2018, you wrote:

-----Original Message-----
>At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
> >At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
> <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I think we have a fax machine, it's under a bunch of boxes in the corner of the room. :slight_smile:

C

I thought the genesis was the abacus?

I still remember the old days of faxing my orders in at the last minute...

Michael

Sent from my iPhone

From: Punch Cards
To: Cobalt.

One step at a time...

B

Wow that's a long thread :slight_smile: .. Great!

One techy question from a curious IT guy...

From what to what are you migrating the code? program language wise

Virus-free. <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>www.avg.com

Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: <mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)

···

At 18:12 18/01/2018, you wrote:

On Jan 18, 2018, at 11:44 AM, Brad Brunet ><mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com >[mepbmlist] ><<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:28 PM, >><mailto:j.chalmeta@yahoo.es>j.chalmeta@yahoo.es >>[mepbmlist] >><<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

K all noted thanks.

Economy hasn't changed, it might just be one of those games.

Clint

Right - rebuilding! Rennovating. Upgrading. Converting and fixing. Same same. :wink: New platform, the PC. Not intentionally reinventing stuff, but differences definitely can happen in the process.

Most of the stuff I have noticed in 4th Age is cosmetic, and possibly related to coding the kingdoms as NK and SK and then the remaining nations are 1-23 in some cases, but properly 1-25 for all the nations in other cases. For example the race/region of the nation vs the names of the troop types imply that the flavor text at least at times is out of sync with the nation, but could also mean that some game elements might be out of sync.

Elves, for example, have different (slightly) terrain modifiers than men. In game 43, my nation 10 is an elven nation, located in the South Mirkwood region. However, in my turn, my troop names clearly reflect a mannish nature:
Woodman horsemen with maces
Woodman horsemen with hand axes
Woodman footmen with battle axes
Mixed Northman footmen with hand axes
Woodman archers with long bows
Mixed Northman mercenaries with maces

Then, in battles, the troops reflect yet a different mannish flavor. My hc and lc, listed as Woodman in the armies section, with maces and hand axes, are different for sure:
Mixed Mannish horsemen with shortswords
Lesser Mannish horsemen with scimitars

And we faced troops from a region in the northwest, either Rhudaur or Dunland, which were listed in battle as Haradan footmen with broadswords. Last I heard, Harad was a lot further south!

Similarly in game 41 as nation 24, I have Plainsman footmen with broadswords listed as the hi troops, who turn into Eriadoran footmen with spears in battle. :slight_smile:

So, as long as the troops actually fight as the correct type, which they do, that is mostly cosmeti c. But in 4th Age, each race does have its own terrain/climate chart, and if the program neither associates troop names with actual race if the nation, nor uses the same names in battle as they do listed in the army section, who knows whether they are actually using the appropriate terrain/climate adjustments? Not a major deal, but certainly disconcerting to take an elvish nation with two different styles of mannish troops shown. :slight_smile:

Other things may also be slightly different, again looking at 4th Age. Sales. From the beginning of 4th Age, the market limit on sales, for almost all turns, until/unless the market started to spiral up, was right around 20k. So reliable a limit it was that I never planned on selling more than 19.7k worth of goods. That was a significant change from the 1650 30k typical limit, ie it was a notable change when 4th Age came out, and folks had to readjust their thinking. But since the changeover, the limit each turn is definitely highe r. In game 43, the higher limit allowed my elven nation to boost its treasury nicely, and this last turn I sold 11,428 food for 22,856 gold plus 2300 timber for 6900 gold, almost 30k, without hitting the limit. The previous turn I sold leather for 10.8k and mounts for 22.9k. The turn before that, turn 7, I hit the limit, selling timber for 37.1k.

Overall, in game 43, the market has never bottomed out like it used to in most 4th Age games, the higher prices and higher market limit allowing treasuries to remain high and that in return helped keep the market from crashing. As of turn 7 I had managed to have 69.5k in treasury despite a 20k deficit. Definitely not typical of 4th Age games played consistently over the past decades.

In some cases, skill increases seem to be slightly more generous than they were before, as well, but I don't have as much data on that handy - on holiday, away from my stuff except for the past couple turn s.

So I stand by my statement, "the game may not work like it used to in some cases." I'm not saying that is a bad thing, it is just a wee bit different. So old calculations/rules of thumb may not always be reliable for things like threats, recruiting characters, doubling, etc.

By the way, while you're digging through the code, one thing that has always irked me. Sieges. From experiences, the siege order is no more likely to work than the threaten order. In which case, nobody should ever bother to siege! Sieging should be easier than threatening, making it a viable option for armies not large enough to threaten.

Ernie III

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>; mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not the case. Best get in here quick before
chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We're
converting the code to work on the PC. what this
means is that we've founds lots of code that is
either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or
that wasn't clear and so I've checked (eg the
Threatening order) and ask for
clarity. Technically we've converted the code,
using it and where it appears to either not been
converted 100% correctly fixing it (eg in some
encounters the text is spitting out twice).

So if you do spot anything tell us and we'll sort
it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code... :slight_smile:

Hope that's useful.

Clint

>They're rebuilding the game on new platform,
>which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.
>
>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>-----Orig inal Message-----
>From: Brad Brunet <mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com
>[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
>
>What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I
>issue the order and the program rolls dice and
>gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?
>
>Brad
>
>On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
><<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarth Games.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
>[mepbmlist]
><<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@y ahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
>
>Well there's sense and then's the rules. The
>rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
>that as they're our source of ruling now.
>
>Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I
>personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
>it adds more skill to the game.
>
>Clint
>
> >
> >a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
> >threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've
> >often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.
> >
> >And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with
> >much less than the required number of troops.
> >
> >I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
> >Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
> >be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.
> >
> >Jeremy
> >< br>> >
> >>
> >>And when there's a random roll, there will
> >>always be fog of war. But threatening is
> >>really, really foggy. Some way to at least
> >>estimate chance of success would be nice, and
> >>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
> >>important than actual numbers, the ratio would
> >>be good to know. Still won't be able to be
> >>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But
> >>fortifications impact, for example, should be
> >>known rather than merely implied - there's no
> >>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
> >>should have been able to threaten a
> >>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
> >>low they were just looking for an excuse to
> >>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
&g
t; >>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad...
> >>
> >>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing
> >>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.
> >>
> >>E3
> >>
> >>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> >>
> >>From: ME Games Ltd <<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
> >>[mepbmlist] <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >>To: mepbmlist <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
> >>
> >>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:
> >>
> >>C
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
> >> knows everything, the game will be
> >> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there
> is always a chance that a good
> >> >character will fail, there's always a chance that a poorer character will
> >> >succeed.
> >> >David
> >> >
> >> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd
> >> >
> <<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

> [mep bmlist]"
> >> > > <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots
> >> > > the rules shouly really say minimum
> >> recommended forced not minimum force.
> >> > >
> >> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Clint
> >> > >
> >> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original
> >> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with
> &g
t;> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was
> >> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
> >> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
> >> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
> >> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
> >> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
> >> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to
> >> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
> >> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.
> >> > > >But many, many games have seen high command
> >> > > >r
> >
> >Virus-free.
> ><< <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium>http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium

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>
> >
>
>Middle Earth Games Ltd
>
>Website:
><<<http://www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.m iddleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com
>
>Email:
><<mailto:me@middleearthgames.com><mailto:me@mid dleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailt o :me@middleearthgames.com><mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com
>
>Post: UK:
><<https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Ca rdiff+CF14+3BP+UK&entry=gmail&source=g>340>https://maps.google.com/?q=340+North+Road,+Cardiff+CF14+3BP+UK&entry=gmail&source=g>340

>North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK
>
>Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
>UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
>(Dial <tel:+44%2029%202091%203359>011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)
>
>Virus-free.
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Middle Earth Games Ltd

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Email: <<mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
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···

At 18:21 18/01/2018, you wrote:

-----Original Message-----
>At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
> >At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
> <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

When all games of 4th Age prior had ~20k market limit on turn 1, and new games of 4th Age since the transition allowed sales of ~27k on turn 1, I would submit that, perhaps, the economy has changed, even if just from the special 4th Age economy to the generic 1650 etc economy. :slight_smile:

···

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 02:24 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

K all noted thanks.

Economy hasn’t changed, it might just be one of those games.

Clint

At 18:21 18/01/2018, you wrote:

Right - rebuilding! Rennovating. Upgrading.
Converting and fixing. Same same. :wink: New
platform, the PC. Not intentionally reinventing
stuff, but differences definitely can happen in the process.

Most of the stuff I have noticed in 4th Age is
cosmetic, and possibly related to coding the
kingdoms as NK and SK and then the remaining
nations are 1-23 in some cases, but properly
1-25 for all the nations in other cases. For
example the race/region of the nation vs the
names of the troop types imply that the flavor
text at least at times is out of sync with the
nation, but could also mean that some game elements might be out of sync.

Elves, for example, have different (slightly)
terrain modifiers than men. In game 43, my
nation 10 is an elven nation, located in the
South Mirkwood region. However, in my turn, my
troop names clearly reflect a mannish nature:
Woodman horsemen with maces
Woodman horsemen with hand axes
Woodman footmen with battle axes
Mixed Northman footmen with hand axes
Woodman archers with long bows
Mixed Northman mercenaries with maces

Then, in battles, the troops reflect yet a
different mannish flavor. My hc and lc, listed
as Woodman in the armies section, with maces and
hand axes, are different for sure:
Mixed Mannish horsemen with shortswords
Lesser Mannish horsemen with scimitars

And we faced troops from a region in the
northwest, either Rhudaur or Dunland, which were
listed in battle as Haradan footmen with
broadswords. Last I heard, Harad was a lot further south!

Similarly in game 41 as nation 24, I have
Plainsman footmen with broadswords listed as the
hi troops, who turn into Eriadoran footmen with spears in battle. :slight_smile:

So, as long as the troops actually fight as the
correct type, which they do, that is mostly
cosmeti c. But in 4th Age, each race does have
its own terrain/climate chart, and if the
program neither associates troop names with
actual race if the nation, nor uses the same
names in battle as they do listed in the army
section, who knows whether they are actually
using the appropriate terrain/climate
adjustments? Not a major deal, but certainly
disconcerting to take an elvish nation with two
different styles of mannish troops shown. :slight_smile:

Other things may also be slightly different,
again looking at 4th Age. Sales. From the
beginning of 4th Age, the market limit on sales,
for almost all turns, until/unless the market
started to spiral up, was right around 20k. So
reliable a limit it was that I never planned on
selling more than 19.7k worth of goods. That was
a significant change from the 1650 30k typical
limit, ie it was a notable change when 4th Age
came out, and folks had to readjust their
thinking. But since the changeover, the limit
each turn is definitely highe r. In game 43, the
higher limit allowed my elven nation to boost
its treasury nicely, and this last turn I sold
11,428 food for 22,856 gold plus 2300 timber for
6900 gold, almost 30k, without hitting the
limit. The previous turn I sold leather for
10.8k and mounts for 22.9k. The turn before
that, turn 7, I hit the limit, selling timber for 37.1k.

Overall, in game 43, the market has never
bottomed out like it used to in most 4th Age
games, the higher prices and higher market limit
allowing treasuries to remain high and that in
return helped keep the market from crashing. As
of turn 7 I had managed to have 69.5k in
treasury despite a 20k deficit. Definitely not
typical of 4th Age games played consistently over the past decades.

In some cases, skill increases seem to be
slightly more generous than they were before, as
well, but I don’t have as much data on that
handy - on holiday, away from my stuff except for the past couple turn s.

So I stand by my statement, “the game may not
work like it used to in some cases.” I’m not
saying that is a bad thing, it is just a wee bit
different. So old calculations/rules of thumb
may not always be reliable for things like
threats, recruiting characters, doubling, etc.

By the way, while you’re digging through the
code, one thing that has always irked me.
Sieges. From experiences, the siege order is no
more likely to work than the threaten order. In
which case, nobody should ever bother to siege!
Sieging should be easier than threatening,
making it a viable option for armies not large enough to threaten.

Ernie III

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com
[mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com;
mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not the case. Best get in here quick before
chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We’re
converting the code to work on the PC. what this
means is that we’ve founds lots of code that is
either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or
that wasn’t clear and so I’ve checked (eg the
Threatening order) and ask for
clarity. Technically we’ve converted the code,
using it and where it appears to either not been
converted 100% correctly fixing it (eg in some
encounters the text is spitting out twice).

So if you do spot anything tell us and we’ll sort
it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code… :slight_smile:

Hope that’s useful.

Clint

They’re rebuilding the game on new platform,
which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Orig inal Message-----
From: Brad Brunet mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.combrad.brunet@gmail.com
[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by “rules” and “ruling”…?? I
issue the order and the program rolls dice and
gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarth
Games.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
[mepbmlist]
<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@y
ahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup
s.com> wrote:

Well there’s sense and then’s the rules. The
rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
that as they’re our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it’s what I
personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:

a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
threatening towns with only 300 troops, I’ve
often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

And as Arthedain, I’ve threatened Carn Dum with
much less than the required number of troops.

I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

Jeremy
< br>> >
At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

And when there’s a random roll, there will
always be fog of war. But threatening is
really, really foggy. Some way to at least
estimate chance of success would be nice, and
if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
important than actual numbers, the ratio would
be good to know. Still won’t be able to be
certain, especially if loyalty isn’t known. But
fortifications impact, for example, should be
known rather than merely implied - there’s no
way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
should have been able to threaten a
city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
low they were just looking for an excuse to
rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
&g
t; >>was the dwarven capital and they hadn’t been hurt that bad…

That’s not fog of war, that is a billowing
cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

E3

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd
<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mepbmlist]
<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

To: mepbmlist
<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
knows everything, the game will be
less interesting. I think, a bit like there
is always a chance that a good

character will fail, there’s always a
chance that a poorer character will

succeed.
David

On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.commailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mep bmlist]"

<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it’s happened lots
the rules shouly really say minimum
recommended forced not minimum force.

We’re updating the guide to reflect this.

Clint

At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Despite what the rulebook said, the original
game always allowed a chance to threaten with
&g
t;> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was

more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

Now, I’d be in favor of a greater adherence to
what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
mechanics were more transparent to the players.
But many, many games have seen high command
r

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It's possible, I'll add it to the list, if it has then I think this is a good thing. Hard for me to look at the old FAS games though

C

When all games of 4th Age prior had ~20k market limit on turn 1, and new games of 4th Age since the transition allowed sales of ~27k on turn 1, I would submit that, perhaps, the economy has changed, even if just from the special 4th Age economy to the generic 1650 etc economy. :slight_smile:

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist <mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 02:24 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

K all noted thanks.

Economy hasn't changed, it might just be one of those games.

Clint

>
>Right - rebuilding! Rennovating. Upgrading.
>Converting and fixing. Same same. :wink: New
>platform, the PC. Not intentionally reinventing
>stuff, but differences definitely can happen in the process.
>
>Most of the stu ff I have noticed in 4th Age is
>cosmetic, and possibly related to coding the
>kingdoms as NK and SK and then the remaining
>nations are 1-23 in some cases, but properly
>1-25 for all the nations in other cases. For
>example the race/region of the nation vs the
>names of the troop types imply that the flavor
>text at least at times is out of sync with the
>nation, but could also mean that some game elements might be out of sync.
>
>Elves, for example, have different (slightly)
>terrain modifiers than men. In game 43, my
>nation 10 is an elven nation, located in the
>South Mirkwood region. However, in my turn, my
>troop names clearly reflect a mannish nature:
>Woodman horsemen with maces
>Woodman horsemen with hand axes
>Woodman footmen with battle axes
>Mixed Northman footmen with hand axes
>Woodman archers with long bows
>Mixed Northman mercenaries wit h maces
>
>Then, in battles, the troops reflect yet a
>different mannish flavor. My hc and lc, listed
>as Woodman in the armies section, with maces and
>hand axes, are different for sure:
>Mixed Mannish horsemen with shortswords
>Lesser Mannish horsemen with scimitars
>
>And we faced troops from a region in the
>northwest, either Rhudaur or Dunland, which were
>listed in battle as Haradan footmen with
>broadswords. Last I heard, Harad was a lot further south!
>
>Similarly in game 41 as nation 24, I have
>Plainsman footmen with broadswords listed as the
>hi troops, who turn into Eriadoran footmen with spears in battle. :slight_smile:
>
>So, as long as the troops actually fight as the
>correct type, which they do, that is mostly
>cosmeti c. But in 4th Age, each race does have
>its own terrain/climate chart, and if the
>program neither associates troop nam es with
>actual race if the nation, nor uses the same
>names in battle as they do listed in the army
>section, who knows whether they are actually
>using the appropriate terrain/climate
>adjustments? Not a major deal, but certainly
>disconcerting to take an elvish nation with two
>different styles of mannish troops shown. :slight_smile:
>
>Other things may also be slightly different,
>again looking at 4th Age. Sales. From the
>beginning of 4th Age, the market limit on sales,
>for almost all turns, until/unless the market
>started to spiral up, was right around 20k. So
>reliable a limit it was that I never planned on
>selling more than 19.7k worth of goods. That was
>a significant change from the 1650 30k typical
>limit, ie it was a notable change when 4th Age
>came out, and folks had to readjust their
>thinking. But since the changeover, the limit
>each turn is definitely highe r. In game 43, the
>higher limit allowed my elven nation to boost
>its treasury nicely, and this last turn I sold
>11,428 food for 22,856 gold plus 2300 timber for
>6900 gold, almost 30k, without hitting the
>limit. The previous turn I sold leather for
>10.8k and mounts for 22.9k. The turn before
>that, turn 7, I hit the limit, selling timber for 37.1k.
>
>Overall, in game 43, the market has never
>bottomed out like it used to in most 4th Age
>games, the higher prices and higher market limit
>allowing treasuries to remain high and that in
>return helped keep the market from crashing. As
>of turn 7 I had managed to have 69.5k in
>treasury despite a 20k deficit. Definitely not
>typical of 4th Age games played consistently over the past decades.
>
>In some cases, skill increases seem to be
>slightly more generous than they were before, as
>well, but I don't have as much data on that
>handy - on holiday, away from my stuff except for the past couple turn s.
>
>So I stand by my statement, "the game may not
>work like it used to in some cases." I'm not
>saying that is a bad thing, it is just a wee bit
>different. So old calculations/rules of thumb
>may not always be reliable for things like
>threats, recruiting characters, doubling, etc.
>
>By the way, while you're digging through the
>code, one thing that has always irked me.
>Sieges. From experiences, the siege order is no
>more likely to work than the threaten order. In
>which case, nobody should ever bother to siege!
>Sieging should be easier than threatening,
>making it a viable option for armies not large enough to threaten.
>
>Ernie III
>
>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>From: ME Games Ltd <mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
>[mepbmlist] <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>To: mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>;
>mepbmlist <<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 11:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
>
>Not the case. Best get in here quick before
>chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We're
>converting the code to work on the PC. what this
>means is that we've founds lots of code that is
>either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or
>that wasn't clear and so I've checked (eg the
>Threatening order) and ask for
>clarity. Technically we've converted the code,
>using it and where it appears to either not been
>converted 100% correctly fixing i t (eg in some
>encounters the text is spitting out twice).
>
>So if you do spot anything tell us and we'll sort
>it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code... :slight_smile:
>
>Hope that's useful.
>
>Clint
>
> >They're rebuilding the game on new platform,
> >which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.
> >
> >Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> >
> >-----Orig inal Message-----
> >From: Brad Brunet <<mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com?>mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com
> >[mepbmlist] <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >To: mepbmlist <<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto :mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
> >Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
> >
> >What do you mean by "rules" and "ruling"..?? I
> >issue the order and the program rolls dice and
> >gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?
> >
> >Brad
> >
> >On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
> ><<<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEa rth?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarth
> Games.com?><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
> >[mepbmlist]
> ><<<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlis t@y?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@y
> ahoogroups.com?><mailto:mepbm list@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup

> s.com> wrote:
> >
> >Well there's sense and then's the rules. The
> >rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
> >that as they're our source of ruling now.
> >
> >Thanks for the feedback guys - it's what I
> >personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
> >it adds more skill to the game.
> >
> >Clint
> >
> > >
> > >a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
> > >threatening towns with only 300 troops, I've
> > >often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.
> > >
> > >And as Arthedain, I've threatened Carn Dum with
> > >much less than the required number of troops.
> > >
> > >I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
> > >Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
> > >be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.
> > >
> > >Jeremy
> > >< br>> >
> > >>
> > >>And when there's a random roll, there will
> > >>always be fog of war. But threatening is
> > >>really, really foggy. Some way to at least
> > >>estimate chance of success would be nice, and
> > >>if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
> > >>important than actual numbers, the ratio would
> > >>be good to know. Still won't be able to be
> > >>certain, especially if loyalty isn't known. But
> > >>fortifications impact, for example, should be
> > >>known rather than mer ely implied - there's no
> > >>way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
> > >>should have been able to threaten a
> > >>city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
> > >>low they were just looking for an excuse to
> > >>rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
>&g
>t; >>was the dwarven capital and they hadn't been hurt that bad...
> > >>
> > >>That's not fog of war, that is a billowing
> > >>cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.
> > >>
> > >>E3
> > >>
> > >>Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> > >>
> > >>From: ME Games Ltd
> <<<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com>mailt o:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com
> > >>[mepbmlist]
> <<<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> > >>To: mepbmlist
> <<<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> > >>Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc
> > >>
> > >>Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so... :slight_smile:
> > >>
> > >>C
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
> > >> knows everything, the game will be
> > >> >less interesting. I think, a bit like there
> > is always a chance that a good
> > >> >character will fail, there's always a
> chance that a poorer character will
> > >> >succeed.
> > >> >David
> > >> >
> > >> > > On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd
> > >> >
> >
> <<<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames .com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com><mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

>
> > [mep bmlist]"
> > >> > >
> <<<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it's happened lots
> > >> > > the rules shouly really say minimum
> > >> recommended forced not minimum force.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We're updating the guide to reflect this.
> > >> > >< br>> > >> > > Clint
> > >> > >
> > >> > > >Despite what the rulebook said, the original
> > >> > > >game always allowed a chance to threaten with
> > &g
>t;> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was
> > >> > > >more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
> > >> > > >In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
> > >> > > >Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
> > >> > > >with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
> > >> > > >troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
> > >> > > >to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >Now, I'd be in favor of a greater adherence to
> > >> > > >what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
> > >> > > >mechanics were more transparent to the players.
> > >> > > >But many, many games have seen high command
> > >> > > >r
> > >
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···

At 19:35 18/01/2018, you wrote:

-----Original Message-----
At 18:21 18/01/2018, you wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
> >At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:
> > >At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:
> > <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >> > > At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I agree! It certainly makes it easier to get wars rolling etc.

I found some old FA games on my USB drive that had turn 1s, and the biggest 1st turn hit the market limit total I could find was a South Kingdom that netted 19,956 gold. Checked a few later turns in the single digits and didn’t find any sales totaling over 20k. Also, the market in those particular games at least bottomed out early and stayed there.

In recent games, I looked at a few turns 1 and 2 for games 41 and 43, and found the following:

Game 41, turn 1 limit was 23.x, 23,166, 23,268, and 23,337 were all market limit capped. The turn 2 limit was 26.x, 26,580, 26,552 and 26,227 were all market limit capped.

Game 43, turn 1 limit was 24.x, 24,162, 24,176 and 24,175. Turn 2 had 25,204 hit the limit, while 25,101 didn’t.

So assuming you have the goods to sell and the prices are right, you can definitely get more out if the market in 4th Age now than you could before, not a huge amount more but it definitely makes a difference, and I agree, it is a good thing. In the early game especially when folks are creating camps and naming characters, that extra gold from sales can make a bug difference. It also lends itself to maintaining a market that hasn’t bottomed out, which makes it possible to continuing growing the treasury, so it has a cumulative impact.

Not really concerned with why the market is more lucrative now, just that it is. Which is better for the game, as folks can survive easier economically, and military nations can afford to spring for metal equipment more often. :wink:

  • Ernie III
···

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com [mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 03:07 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

It’s possible, I’ll add it to the list, if it has
then I think this is a good thing. Hard for me
to look at the old FAS games though

C
At 19:35 18/01/2018, you wrote:

When all games of 4th Age prior had ~20k market
limit on turn 1, and new games of 4th Age since
the transition allowed sales of ~27k on turn 1,
I would submit that, perhaps, the economy has
changed, even if just from the special 4th Age
economy to the generic 1650 etc economy. :slight_smile:

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd me@MiddleEarthGames.com
[mepbmlist] mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
To: mepbmlist mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 02:24 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

K all noted thanks.

Economy hasn’t changed, it might just be one of those games.

Clint

At 18:21 18/01/2018, you wrote:

Right - rebuilding! Rennovating. Upgrading.
Converting and fixing. Same same. :wink: New
platform, the PC. Not intentionally reinventing
stuff, but differences definitely can happen in the process.

Most of the stu ff I have noticed in 4th Age is
cosmetic, and possibly related to coding the
kingdoms as NK and SK and then the remaining
nations are 1-23 in some cases, but properly
1-25 for all the nations in other cases. For
example the race/region of the nation vs the
names of the troop types imply that the flavor
text at least at times is out of sync with the
nation, but could also mean that some game elements might be out of sync.

Elves, for example, have different (slightly)
terrain modifiers than men. In game 43, my
nation 10 is an elven nation, located in the
South Mirkwood region. However, in my turn, my
troop names clearly reflect a mannish nature:
Woodman horsemen with maces
Woodman horsemen with hand axes
Woodman footmen with battle axes
Mixed Northman footmen with hand axes
Woodman archers with long bows
Mixed Northman mercenaries wit h maces

Then, in battles, the troops reflect yet a
different mannish flavor. My hc and lc, listed
as Woodman in the armies section, with maces and
hand axes, are different for sure:
Mixed Mannish horsemen with shortswords
Lesser Mannish horsemen with scimitars

And we faced troops from a region in the
northwest, either Rhudaur or Dunland, which were
listed in battle as Haradan footmen with
broadswords. Last I heard, Harad was a lot further south!

Similarly in game 41 as nation 24, I have
Plainsman footmen with broadswords listed as the
hi troops, who turn into Eriadoran footmen with spears in battle. :slight_smile:

So, as long as the troops actually fight as the
correct type, which they do, that is mostly
cosmeti c. But in 4th Age, each race does have
its own terrain/climate chart, and if the
program neither associates troop nam es with
actual race if the nation, nor uses the same
names in battle as they do listed in the army
section, who knows whether they are actually
using the appropriate terrain/climate
adjustments? Not a major deal, but certainly
disconcerting to take an elvish nation with two
different styles of mannish troops shown. :slight_smile:

Other things may also be slightly different,
again looking at 4th Age. Sales. From the
beginning of 4th Age, the market limit on sales,
for almost all turns, until/unless the market
started to spiral up, was right around 20k. So
reliable a limit it was that I never planned on
selling more than 19.7k worth of goods. That was
a significant change from the 1650 30k typical
limit, ie it was a notable change when 4th Age
came out, and folks had to readjust their
thinking. But since the changeover, the limit
each turn is definitely highe r. In game 43, the
higher limit allowed my elven nation to boost
its treasury nicely, and this last turn I sold
11,428 food for 22,856 gold plus 2300 timber for
6900 gold, almost 30k, without hitting the
limit. The previous turn I sold leather for
10.8k and mounts for 22.9k. The turn before
that, turn 7, I hit the limit, selling timber for 37.1k.

Overall, in game 43, the market has never
bottomed out like it used to in most 4th Age
games, the higher prices and higher market limit
allowing treasuries to remain high and that in
return helped keep the market from crashing. As
of turn 7 I had managed to have 69.5k in
treasury despite a 20k deficit. Definitely not
typical of 4th Age games played consistently over the past decades.

In some cases, skill increases seem to be
slightly more generous than they were before, as
well, but I don’t have as much data on that
handy - on holiday, away from my stuff except for the past couple turn s.

So I stand by my statement, “the game may not
work like it used to in some cases.” I’m not
saying that is a bad thing, it is just a wee bit
different. So old calculations/rules of thumb
may not always be reliable for things like
threats, recruiting characters, doubling, etc.

By the way, while you’re digging through the
code, one thing that has always irked me.
Sieges. From experiences, the siege order is no
more likely to work than the threaten order. In
which case, nobody should ever bother to siege!
Sieging should be easier than threatening,
making it a viable option for armies not large enough to threaten.

Ernie III

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com
[mepbmlist] <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
To: mepbmlist
<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>;
mepbmlist <mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 18, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Not the case. Best get in here quick before
chinese whisptrs kick off big time. We’re
converting the code to work on the PC. what this
means is that we’ve founds lots of code that is
either bugged (found a few year old bugs !) or
that wasn’t clear and so I’ve checked (eg the
Threatening order) and ask for
clarity. Technically we’ve converted the code,
using it and where it appears to either not been
converted 100% correctly fixing i t (eg in some
encounters the text is spitting out twice).

So if you do spot anything tell us and we’ll sort
it out. Encounters have been a particularly interesting mix of code… :slight_smile:

Hope that’s useful.

Clint

They’re rebuilding the game on new platform,
which means the game may not work like it used to in some cases. Heh.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

-----Orig inal Message-----
From: Brad Brunet
<mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.combrad.brunet@gmail.com?>mailto:brad.brunet@gmail.com>brad.brunet@gmail.com

[mepbmlist]
<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

To: mepbmlist
<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com?>mailto
:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wed, Jan 17, 2018 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

What do you mean by “rules” and “ruling”…?? I
issue the order and the program rolls dice and
gives me results. What does the GM have to do with it?

Brad

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:05 AM, ME Games Ltd
<<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEa
rth?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarth

Games.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>me@MiddleEarthGames.com

[mepbmlist]
<<<mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlis
t@y?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@y
ahoogroups.com?><mailto:mepbm
list@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup?>mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.com>mepbmlist@yahoogroup

s.com> wrote:

Well there’s sense and then’s the rules. The
rules are now updated in the Guide to reflect
that as they’re our source of ruling now.

Thanks for the feedback guys - it’s what I
personally prefer as a player and as a GM I think
it adds more skill to the game.

Clint

At 08:58 17/01/2018, you wrote:

a C90 (with arties) routinely succeeds
threatening towns with only 300 troops, I’ve
often sent Ashdurbuk eastwards to take 2904 and 3002 that way.

And as Arthedain, I’ve threatened Carn Dum with
much less than the required number of troops.

I think it is in keeping with the spirit of
Middle Earth that this is so. One person can
be so powerful as to have this impact, it makes sense to me.

Jeremy
< br>> >
At 02:06 PM 1/16/2018, you wrote:

And when there’s a random roll, there will
always be fog of war. But threatening is
really, really foggy. Some way to at least
estimate chance of success would be nice, and
if command rank vs loyalty is truly more
important than actual numbers, the ratio would
be good to know. Still won’t be able to be
certain, especially if loyalty isn’t known. But
fortifications impact, for example, should be
known rather than mer ely implied - there’s no
way my C130+ with a mere 1300 or so troops
should have been able to threaten a
city/citadel, unless the city liyalty was so
low they were just looking for an excuse to
rebel, which would have been unlikely given it
&g
t; >>was the dwarven capital and they hadn’t been hurt that bad…

That’s not fog of war, that is a billowing
cloud of dense black smoke obscuring the mechanics.

E3

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-----Original Message-----
From: ME Games Ltd

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[mepbmlist]

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To: mepbmlist

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Sent: Tue, Jan 16, 2018 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [mepbmlist] Threatening a pc

Yeah but other players like - this is the rule so… :slight_smile:

C

At 16:22 16/01/2018, you wrote:

I prefer a bit of fog of war. If everyone
knows everything, the game will be
less interesting. I think, a bit like there
is always a chance that a good

character will fail, there’s always a
chance that a poorer character will

succeed.
David

On 16 January 2018 at 14:59 "ME Games Ltd

<<mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.commailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com?>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.com>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames.comme@MiddleEarthGames.com>mailto:me@MiddleEarthGames
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mailto:mepbmlist@yahoogroups.commepbmlist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Yeah thanks Ernie, I concur it’s happened lots
the rules shouly really say minimum
recommended forced not minimum force.

We’re updating the guide to reflect this.
< br>> > >> > > Clint

At 14:54 16/01/2018, you wrote:

Despite what the rulebook said, the original
game always allowed a chance to threaten with
&g
t;> > > >less than the official number of troops. It was

more weighted towards command rank vs loyalty.
In 1650 way back in the day I once threatened
Moria, a city/citadel, away from the dwarves,
with a dog lord army that had less than 1500
troops, but my comman rank was over 130 thanks
to command items, ironically including the dwarven ring of power.

Now, I’d be in favor of a greater adherence to
what the rulebook claimed, provided the actual
mechanics were more transparent to the players.
But many, many games have seen high command
r

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Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website:
<<<http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleea
rthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email:
<<mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleeart
hgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)


Posted by: ME Games Ltd
<<mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleeart
hgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com>

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Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website:
<<http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com>http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email:
<mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com?>mailto:me@middleearthgames.com>me@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)


Posted by: ME Games Ltd
<mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com&

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Middle Earth Games Ltd

Website: <http://www.middleearthgames.com>www.middleearthgames.com

Email: mailto:me@middleearthgames.comme@middleearthgames.com

Post: UK: 340 North Road, Cardiff CF14 3BP UK

Telephone: Phone Times: 10am-6:30pm UK Time (BST); 5am-1.30 (EST)
UK: 029 2091 3359 (029 2062 5665 can be used if main engaged)
(Dial 011 44 29 2091 3359 if in the US)


Posted by: ME Games Ltd me@middleearthgames.com

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